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points by supjeff 4 days ago | 0 comments
The one good thing about the current system is that shitheads like musk can spend half-a-billion to buy elections, but the people still have the final say.
[–] tialaramex 4 days ago
Interestingly the current "lets stop corporations from spending money on elections" that's popular in several states - wouldn't directly touch Musk because he can just spend the money directly.

I don't think "Oooh. Scary muslims!" works any less well if it's required to say "Elon Musk" rather than "American Apple Pie Goodness PAC" or whatever.

It might make a difference for smaller donors, especially if they're more sensitive about their personal PR.

[–] rsynnott 4 days ago
Many countries cap donations by private individuals (capped to 1,000 in Ireland, for instance, for both private individuals and companies). Like, this is a fixable problem.
[–] tialaramex 4 days ago
It's fixable if you have significant Supreme Court reform. I doubt the numbers are there to actually land that reform. Say you get 52 Democrats in the Senate, which is a tall order, and you write some reforms that could actually work, forced retirements, that sort of thing, immediately you'll find that two or three of them suddenly think such reforms need to be "bipartisan" and alas the Republicans who've fixed things don't seem interested in coming along. How about that.

Or, I suppose, you could fix it by abolishing America's Written Constitution so that its legislature can just write legislation for this. I think that would go down like cold sick - Americans love their Written Constitution.

[–] rsynnott 3 days ago
I mean, my assumption would be that there is a way to write such a law such that it is constitutional.
[–] verdverm 4 days ago
The US is going to need a constitutional amendment to undo the Citizens United decision. Unlimited money in politics is anything but free speech.
[–] Daz912 4 days ago
As demonstrated in 2024 with democrat billionaires trying and failing to buy the election :)
[–] MattDamonSpace 4 days ago
So can we stop panicking about money in elections or
[–] georgemcbay 4 days ago
No, this much money in politics is still very dangerous.

A major reason it isn't working for now is because Donald Trump is, in addition to being a corrupt autocrat, incredibly incompetent. We shouldn't have to rely on that next time.

[–] tt24 3 days ago
Your belief is unfalsifiable
[–] dylan604 4 days ago
Trump's time is ending, but Musk's is not. That's pretty scary
[–] johnnyanmac 4 days ago
Nope. Money still buys votes. It's just that Musk is so opaquely unpopular outside of the US that it negates his riches. Which really says something.
[–] verdverm 4 days ago
He's also very unpopular in the US
[–] johnnyanmac 4 days ago
Not unpopular enough to tank Tesla sales (like in other countries) or not be pubic enemy #1 after literally stealing America's government data.

He did screw up Twitter/X enough that a new competitor managed to make a blip on the map, though. So that leads some credence.

[–] verdverm 4 days ago
EV sales are not a great metric to judge musk sentiments, consider the Tesla drivers who put various bumper stickers on

Tesla is the only EV company in the US making a good product. People also like the techieness. Foreign manufactures like Hyundai (what I drive, preferred less tech and real buttons) have tariffs and such applied to them. BYD would wreck them all if allowed.

[–] johnnyanmac 4 days ago
>Tesla is the only EV company in the US making a good product. People also like the techieness.

Well yes. Those were things in EU too. But those didn't override the fact that he tried to control their elections. The US has some people who swore off Tesla in similar protest, but the overall sentiment didn't seem to impact their bottom line.

I personally want to hold out and see if/when the US gives up on tariffing progress. But I have driven a 2008 car for almost 10 years and can't overlook the scenario of needing to replace it one day.

And I'm interested in an FEV for my next car. Tesla is completely out of the question, but I really haven't been impressed with most other offerings when I could peer over the border and see what BYD, Xiaomi, and others are doing. Maybe I compromise short term then trade in when the time comes?

[–] verdverm 4 days ago
Check out Hyundais, I drive an Ioniq 6, really nice sedan, 800V architecture, charges in less than 20m on a 350
[–] Telaneo 4 days ago
Absolutely the fuck not.
[–] Ygg2 4 days ago
Not really. A biased coin doesn't need to be biased 99% (to 1%) for it to matter.
[–] colordrops 4 days ago
That's assuming no gerrymandering and funny business at the polls.
[–] andersonpico 4 days ago
gerrymandering is not possible with Brasil electoral system
[–] dietr1ch 4 days ago
Right, but he's right to try to account for legal, as in currently allowed, cheating or misrepresentation of the people in a democracy.
[–] xoa 4 days ago
>gerrymandering

I don't know the specifics of Brazil's system, but at least in the US gerrymandering has nothing to do with the Presidency or Senate, only the House. It's also not without risk. Gerrymandering is bad, but it doesn't change the totals of votes; it attempts to reapportion "excess" votes yielding a large win margin in one area to give winning, but necessarily smaller, margins in more areas. Amongst other challenges though that smaller margin means if there is a wave then a gerrymander can turn into a "dummymander" where previously safe districts get flipped.

>funny business

This is actually pretty dang hard in anything but a total sham, and even then is at least obvious it happened. Some timy fiddling at the margins may be possible to sneak through, and yeah some elections that might make the difference. But that can't counter any serious victory. The more common technique seems to be trying to suppress the vote. But as well as also not being trivial it also too risks backfiring by motivating people much harder. There is a lot of human psychology around "loss", people often absolutely hate things being taken from them even if they were complacent about having them.

[–] brunoborges 4 days ago
Brazilian here. President wins by popular vote. Period.

Must win by 50% plus 1 of all valid votes on Round 1. If not, 1st and 2nd most voted go for Round 2 a few weeks later. Then, 50%+1 again of all valid votes.

[–] ZeroGravitas 4 days ago
Gerrymandering can give you control of state level offices that then let you affect federal elections by say closing voting locations where you think mostly the opposition will vote or kicking people with ethnic names of voting lists at the last minute.

So there's not a direct effect on Presidential elections but there's a second order effect.

[–] Dwedit 4 days ago
While gerrymandering technically "only" involves the house, it can demotivate people who would otherwise turn out.
[–] saturn8601 4 days ago
Gerrymandering is the most benign of the tricks, and both sides play that trick. What's more concerning is we don't really have a true paper record of the votes. So many of these swing states have machines that produce digital only voting records. So how do we even know that the vote is accurate? Even if there was a paper record, most states don't even bother re-checking unless it's very close. After 2016, a lot of activism across the country has forced states to switch to a paper + digital record, which allows quick tallies, but then also paper backup and opens the door to two way verification. Unfortunately, this is not enough. There needs to be validation done after the election to confirm. But again, the worst part is that the states that really matter have been the ones least incentivized to actually switch over. So who knows? While its conspiracy thinking that Trump didn't actually win in 2024, do we really know for sure?

Everything else you mentioned also matters. I can't tell you the amount of times that the state of Georgia, suddenly out of the blue, invalidated a lot of registered voters. And if people don't check, like my friend in a minority town outside of Atlanta, they won't realize until election day. Red states are more likely to play this trick. Your conclusion is something I disagree with, though. Voters have lost so much over the last decade, and they don't fight back until it really starts to affect them personally. I think the surge that we might see this election is only due to economics. If the economics were good, it's not out of the question that Trump would be doing fairly decent this election cycle. This is why Iran is playing things very well to try to enact maximum economic pain in the days before the election. But it's all about economics, and that shows you that people truly don't really care.

[–] p-e-w 4 days ago
Gerrymandering doesn’t change the fact that the voters decide the results. Most electoral systems already give unequal weight to different votes based on district sizes etc., so gerrymandering is only a change of degree and intention, not of how democracy fundamentally works.
[–] afavour 4 days ago
> Gerrymandering doesn’t change the fact that the voters decide the results.

Well it does change which voters decide the results. A lot of electoral systems seek to constantly redress imbalance by having impartial bodies redraw district lines as populations shift. It is a shame the US does not. Gerrymandering is fundamentally undemocratic.

[–] rsynnott 4 days ago
Also, many countries use multiseat PR, which makes gerrymandering virtually impossible.
[–] cowlevel 4 days ago
I'm not sure you could find, or make, an impartial body in the US.
[–] incompatible 4 days ago
A district system already embeds bias towards large parties.