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points by exmadscientist 3 days ago | 0 comments
Scroll bars have always been both control (press here to move around) and indicator (how much of this document is there, and how far through it am I?).

Always-on-screen scrollbars are only useless if you think that indication is useless. Many people find it quite valuable.

[–] eviks 3 days ago
Correct, but you don't need the full thick scrollbar for the indicator function, some apps use a much smaller dot/guide
[–] account42 2 days ago
I'm constantly searching for the scroll bar position on mobile FF because its barely visible. And that's at least on a device where you can make the argument that horizontal screen real estate is limited, unlike a desktop PC where hiding scoll bars to save space makes zero sense at all.
[–] jasomill 3 days ago
More to the point, the indicator doesn’t need to always be visible to be useful. Appearing only when the viewport is noving works fine on the iPhone, for instance, because slighly moving the viewpoint to reveal it is a convenient action, and less well on desktop PCs where your hands are less likely to remain near movement controls at all times.

It’s also applicaction specific: I care a lot more about relative viewport size and position when reading a long document than I do when I’m entering commands at the bottom of a terminal’s scrollback buffer.

[–] Geezus_42 2 days ago
I don't disagree with your overall point. However, I don't find wiggling the scroll wheel on my mouse or a quick two finger swipe on a good touchpad any less convenient than using my thumb to do the same jiggle on my phone.
[–] jasomill 2 days ago
I do, possibly because I rarely use laptops and tend to lean back away from my desk when reading material on my desktop with its 55” display.

No matter, this is exactly the sort of thing that can and should be implemented as a systemwide user option, possibly with app- or even app-profile level overrides for cases like terminal emulators where users are less likely to prefer full-time scrollbars.

[–] Geezus_42 1 day ago
I absolutely agree that it should be a user option.
[–] oneeyedpigeon 2 days ago
That would've been a much better argument when we were rocking 640x480 screens. 15 pixels out of 1,920 is hardly a sacrifice for the added utility.