Hacker News
points by xxmarkuski 3 days ago | 0 comments
I recently tried "ChoViva" it's a chocolate substitute made from sunflower seeds. Turns out 80% of the chocolate flavor comes from the processing, including fermentation and roasting and not from the plant. They process the sunflower seeds in a way that achieves a taste and texture very close to chocolate. In a way, I prefer it over chocolate because it has no caffeine and has a slightly compacter texture that does not stick around in the mouth for so long. Really interesting. ChoViva is just the brand. They only do B2B so it is used as part of the supply chain for sweets like peanut butter cups.
[–] tarsierscripter 2 days ago
Coffee has very similar processing to chocolate, can produce similar flavours with the right amount of roasting, but is not even close to the same thing due to the dramatically different fat content (both quantity and type of fat).

There’s a reason chocolate that has other plant fats blended into it is considered a highly inferior product to chocolate containing only cocoa butter, cocoa solids, sugar, and (optionally) milk. Cocoa butter’s melting temperature is just right for producing the intense, mouth-coating sensation of a good chocolate. Not to mention that cocoa butter carries much of the aroma compounds we love from chocolate.

[–] LinguaBrowse 2 days ago
They sell ChoViva here in Japan, in Aeon supermarkets. I've tried the「チョコか？ 」bar [1] and really enjoy it. Given how most "chocolate" on sale these days is actually compound chocolate, it's very competitive on taste. It's also affordable, at ¥322 ($2.04), post-tax, for an 80g bar; unlike GOVOCE [2], a chocolate substitute based on burdock root, which costs ¥700 ($4.43), post-tax, for just 52g (and tastes less good in my opinion).

I'm more into dark chocolate, though, so I hope ChoViva start selling a bitter version over here. It seems they have a formulation for it [3], though I've not seen it available in a bar format.

- [1] https://www.topvalu.net/tv-chococa/

- [2] https://www.ahjikan.co.jp/melburd_govoce/

- [3] https://choviva.com/products/schulte-dominoes-choviva-dark

[–] bigDinosaur 2 days ago
80% alike is to my mind dramatically different and would not be a substitute at all. I also don't think 95% cocoa chocolate is a substitute for 80% cocoa chocolate etc. as even the small difference results in a dramatically different product and that's the simplest variation possible for chocolate.
[–] RestartKernel 2 days ago
While that 20% is a dealbreaker for me personally, a friend of mine prefers it over real chocolate. So I suppose the difference can go both ways. Anecdotally, if you enjoy very milky, sugary chocolate, you'll probably like these alternative chocolates just fine.
[–] technothrasher 2 days ago
I'd definitely say the 20% is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Anybody who has eaten raw and roasted cacao nibs should be able to easily identify the same flavors pervasively in chocolate, and which are from the raw cacao and which are from the roasting. Although the more sugar, dairy, and other adjuncts in the chocolate, the less the cacao flavors come through.
[–] ASalazarMX 2 days ago
> Turns out 80% of the chocolate flavor comes from the processing, including fermentation and roasting and not from the plant

As someone who has roasted cacao beans and made their own chocolate, I feel slightly offended by this... yet, I have to concede that roasted beans share a lot of qualities. Cheap coffee used to have (maybe still has?) roasted garbanzo beans as filler, and it wasn't that bad. Old-style roasteries used to roast peanuts the same way they roasted coffee: a very tasty snack, and as aromatic as the coffee beans.

[–] fouc 2 days ago
I was about to write s/caffeine/theobromine/ when I double-checked and learned that theobromine is a metabolite of caffeine. Mind blown.
[–] kaonwarb 2 days ago
This seems to be quite complicated! Was reading here https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Metabolism-of-caffeine-I... - > In humans, theobromine does not metabolize into caffeine, although the latter reaction occurs in young leaves of cacao plant.
[–] KellyCriterion 3 days ago
Ive heard of this method over here in Europe some years ago, though do not know if these process gained any traction regarding regular bought food brands?
[–] mapt 2 days ago
See also the numerous coffee substitutes like chicory and roasted barley.

The original "Cafe mocha" was apparently just a variety of coffee bean that tasted sort of like hot chocolate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mocha_coffee_bean . Depending on the roast, you can cold brew coffee to emphasize the chocolatey components as well.

[–] LinguaBrowse 2 days ago
Chicory "coffee" is lovely. I can't say it reminds me of coffee particularly, but it's a great option as a caffeine-free bitter drink.