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points by jve 3 days ago | 0 comments

Yeah, I also don't get why people expect to work 2 hrs instead of 8 and receive same salary.

Once you go from horse to tractor the fields increase but work hours doesn't decrease. And if you still use a horse, you are outperformed by the tractor guys who will sell stuff at less the price that you can sustain.

[–] bagacrap 3 days ago

I don't get paid more when I work 9 or 10 hours, do I?

I am theoretically paid on deliverables, not hours.

[–] jmd42 3 days ago

Maybe so, but the deliverables expected of a full time worker tend to correspond roughly to some estimate of a typical worker's productivity. Or people are hired to perform particular kinds of duties, and expected to be reasonably productive in those duties given the time and resources allocated to them.

[–] bagacrap 2 days ago

Right, so, the OP states "I've never worked more" which invalidates even the concept that we're working equally hard for more output and same pay.

And the reason is likely because AI automates the things that were time consuming but not 'hard'. So now we only have hard stuff left.

[–] layer8 3 days ago

Your employment contract lists deliverables rather than work time?

[–] bagacrap 2 days ago

if only it were as easy as having a clearly stated contract!

Career advancement and discretionary compensation are nebulously linked to deliverables.

[–] sublinear 3 days ago

No typical employment contract (in the USA) lists either the deliverables or the "work time".

[–] layer8 3 days ago

So how are the duties of the employee defined? In Europe it’s usually $hours/week in $role (minus holidays and vacation days).

[–] nkrisc 2 days ago

To simplify: it’s essentially work X hours per week, performing the job duties described for the position, the specifics of which will be supplied to you by your boss (they tell you what to do).

If your boss believes you are performing a satisfactory amount of work for the time spent, you keep your job. If not, or they just don’t like you for some reason not protected by law, you lose your job.

You do what they tell you and hope they are happy with the results.

[–] chasd00 2 days ago

it's this way in the US too, if people would read the actual contract for a typical office white collar job 40hrs/week is in there along with whether or not you get paid overtime. Most IT workers do not get paid overtime but some do. In some US jobs paid overtime is required by law and in others it is not. Also, different US states have different labor laws too so there's multiple governments and laws involved plus the whatever the employee and company have negotiated between themselves. I can't think of a single labor law that applies to every single working person in the US no matter what they're paid for. [edit: except taxes]

[–] whateveracct 1 day ago

i have looked at all my software dev contracts and none of them say 40hrs/week. which is nice because that means i am free to work whatever.

[–] bagacrap 2 days ago

Cap

I have been in Munich in September and seen the offices empty out at 2pm on a Tuesday for Oktoberfest. No one took a vacation day or stayed late on Wednesday.

[–] sublinear 1 day ago

Salary rates are yearly, bonuses are percentages of that salary, and shares are in quantity. Payment schedule is biweekly or monthly. Paid time off has no specific limit, but subject to approval by management (usually just don't take more than two weeks at a time and plan ahead according to workload). Sick/parental leave depends on federal and local laws. Federal holidays are mandatory.

This compensation package is reviewed yearly, and your role is simply a job title. I'm approaching middle age and have worked my entire adult life. Nowhere have I ever seen any hours specified. The closest to that is when I've had to help HR fill in the billable hours on timesheets for specific projects with certain clients. That's usually just approving whatever blanks Jira filled in for ServiceNow.

I'm, of course, not talking about working at a startup.

[–] whateveracct 3 days ago

nope. it basically says "if we haven't fired you, you're good." (at-will)

it's kinda nice because you can manipulate your output and do less work. so long as my employer doesn't know my sausage is made, i'm free to add sawdust ;)

[–] steele 3 days ago

Because that's what they observe the executive management performing for multiple employers simultaneously and the definitional difference between salary and hourly wage.

[–] whateveracct 3 days ago

I've done this for years thanks to remote work

[–] jve 2 days ago

And you are one of the reasons why some orgs don't want WFH.

I'm quite amazed how many people actually think they can get away with working for few hours and think they are somehow entitled to it under 9-5 40hr workweek contract.

[–] whateveracct 1 day ago

i've been doing it for a literal decade hehe

always above expectations on my perf reviews btw :) so i guess i'm fulfilling my at-will employment contract just fine! (nothing in that contract says "40 hours" or "9-5")