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points by yulaow 3 days ago | 0 comments

It depends if you were a dev who liked more the micro parts or a dev who liked more the macro parts. To compare, think about going to an artisan or a musician or a painter (or any creative like most programmer who started by being passionate about it) and telling him "well now you can ignore the fine details, there is a tool which does that for you and you just focus on the less mundane tasks."

I for sure know I would get a slap in the face

[–] MarkLowenstein 2 days ago

This. This is the real phenomenon of the AI-assisted development decade.

People who became programmers because they are naturally motivated by the craft, are now "unproductive" unless they dispense with their beloved crafting activities forever. What are they going to do? Voluntary buyouts for starters.

But then who will be left? What kind of software will they provide?

[–] icantevenhold 2 days ago

Not my experience tbh.

Those that love writing code are still doing it just way more intense than ever (like the person in the article)

Those that use code as a means to an end, solve that issue and then take the rest of the day off

Might just be me though

[–] khasan222 2 days ago

I want to agree with you, and my instinct certainly is to do so. one thing is for me is, I don't see code as art, to me it is math / science, and we are scientists, using the scientific method to solve problems with questions, hypothesis, evidence, and conclusions, all in the form of documentation and code.

I love writing code, it is quite thrilling going through meticulously and spotting that thing no one else could. Writing code, however, is daunting, taxing on the mind, takes a lot of mental toll, and you must be in the proper mental space. So if i have a tool, that can take some of that weight off of my mind, so i can focus on the bigger picture, is a good thing.

The end goal is still software that people use. I think we should focus more on our new found extent of our powers. I feel at least 6x my normal velocity. How many new projects have you been able to tackle since the advent of AI? I know for me it has been numerous for sure. We're living in the future man. I write code on the train, and in my sleep nowadays. Crazy times.

[–] luc4 2 days ago

I'm a mathematician and for me math is art :)

[–] computerdork 2 days ago

I agree, great coding is art too, and not just the code itself, but very much the problem solving process. It’s sad the highest levels of cognitive ability humans can do are no longer needed (or not nearly as much)

[–] khasan222 2 days ago

lolol :) man who knows, i just be rambling.

[–] dieortin 2 days ago

> I love writing code (…). Writing code, however, is daunting, taxing on the mind, takes a lot of mental toll, and you must be in the proper mental space. So if i have a tool, that can take some of that weight off of my mind, so i can focus on the bigger picture, is a good thing.

You clearly don’t love writing code.

> I write code on the train, and in my sleep nowadays

And you don’t write any code. Not in the train, not in your sleep, and probably not in the office either. Having Claude do it for you is not writing code. You wouldn’t claim to be writing code if you had an intern do it while you sleep.

[–] khasan222 2 days ago

I feel you, and I think we agree, I mean it depends with the intern writing code, because I always ask myself, if this code were illegal who would go to jail to determine ownership, and shucks, I never considered the intern angle :). I don't think I would be culpable there, but i would definitely be at fault if it were authored by ai.

and about my tacit love for software you're right I don't want to write code just for the sake of it, for sure, I want to write code towards a purpose, always with some goal in mind. But I gander, we are all like that, because how much time do we spend planning and deciding before ever putting fingers to the keyboard.

But it does suck sometimes, I'm just trying to find the joy in the new parts, ya know? I want to embrace the new technology, and use it, because the toothpaste is out of the tube, and it can't go back in. Everything else I do or believe stems from that belief.

[–] computerdork 2 days ago

Agreed, really enjoy solving tough problems. Like having some interesting enhancement that needs to be carefully and surgical added into a complex codebase. Or writing an algorithm that grabs a bunch of info, sorts it in multiple ways, and uses this info to generate a useful result for our API (am thinking of specific past situations that have done this).

What is not fun is the repetitive stuff, where you have to search a code base for the same change over and over again, but it's not something you can just do a search and replace. Am happy to have AI do this (although, even this, you still have to read through every change).

[–] tencentshill 2 days ago

It's more like not having to clean up the paint and organize supplies before and after. The robot does a good enough job most of the time.

[–] poisonborz 3 days ago

Apples and oranges. Hot take: fine details in an artwork are extremely important. "Fine details" in a codebase are either some pattern you can easily instruct an agent to follow, or deliver zero value.

[–] theptip 2 days ago

Missing the point. Which is, some people like the details, code as craft; others like the high level, product/business impact, systems, etc, code as a means to an end.

The profession used to have a need for both, now the “coding machine” and artisanal code crafter are trending obsolete in most companies.

[–] poisonborz 2 days ago

I think I reacted exactly to this. What is "code as craft", or as often read, "code is poetry"? It is variable naming, structure, hierarchy, import logic, all patterns that can be strictly controlled still. Opinions vary if this still carries enough value - I like these details, exactly because I value the "craft" and the expectancy of human oversight these presume, but I could argue about it to some manager less and less (compared to what frontier models generate already).

So when all this can still be kept, "hand craft", the muscle memory of typing code, or, as OP said,"dev who liked more the micro parts", what is this other than some nice myth the industry wove for itself?

[–] theptip 1 day ago

Perhaps the crux is: what is “value”?

If we mean dollar value then yes, hand crafted code may go to zero as nobody wants to pay a 10x premium for it.

If we mean (as I did) the subjective value to the creator themself, then there is no reason this has to stop. It will just make the same shift as farming to gardening.

You shouldn’t expect to get paid for this, or do it on your employer’s time, but you are absolutely free to do it in your leisure time, and perhaps just like Go and Chess, AI will make these pursuits more accessible than ever, to those who are interested in learning for fun.