God what an annoying thing to say. Suggesting that movies will essentially become games, or that future video games will be unimaginably better (presumably because they are driven by generative world models) betrays such a surface level appreciation for what makes art and culture and all this humanity so beautiful as it is.
The entire point of movies is the deliberate choices of the filmmakers! Movies will not be improved by our ability to choose what the main character looks like or add a style filter. Super Mario 64 is great because it is an expression of the very hardware that constrains it. Inevitable future versions where anything can happen because someone hooked the ROM up to a generative world model won't be better for it.
I agree that this technology is absolutely world changing, and am cautiously eager to see what comes of it, but it just bums me out, perhaps needlessly, that the people at the helm can be so artless, unreflective. Whatever.
[–] NothingAboutAny 2 days ago
[–] pigpop 2 days ago
The new Terra 6.1 is pretty good at doing user testing as well via computer use, going through all the features and noting any bugs or inconsistencies.
It feels like we might be on a trajectory that takes us to a place where someone can just say "I'm bored, make me a new game" and then provide minimal feedback like "this isn't fun, make it better" and get an entertaining game without a lot of iteration. Of course we'll still have games that come from human ideas as well but vibe games seem like they're here to stay.
[–] NothingAboutAny 2 days ago
I'm not sure if this is a limitation of the tech or whether it will eventually have "taste" in such nebulous domains as "what is fun." They still can't write funny jokes despite trillions of dollars of training because even though there's plenty of funny material and discussions on what funny is, I guess it's still kind of a human thing.
[–] pigpop 1 day ago
Currently, if you want better results, you have to prime the model with what I like to think of as a Context Mood Board consisting of material that you select to express a gestalt. Turning reasoning off also helps since it forces it to rely on what's already in the context.
This is a lot of manual work to set up but you can save it as something that gets loaded when needed. For open weight models you can create a LoRA based on a dataset that represents what you consider to be good taste.
The point is that it is possible to do even though it's currently not available from the major providers. They're more focused on maintaining their lead in capability, taste takes a backseat. At some point it will become more important and then we'll probably see either a curated selection of styles to choose from or they'll just keep them hidden and automatically route you based on your request and your user profile.
If you want a preview of the difference this can make try out some image generation models in ComfyUI and compare the results from the same prompt using the original base models versus the fine tunes and LoRAs created by the community. It's incredible what a difference it can make in the output and what you're seeing is the design sense or artistic taste of the person that did the fine tuning and the artists whose material was selected as input.
Looking even further ahead, there's a huge amount of undiscovered talent out there in people who lack the technical ability to produce art but have a very good sense of taste. Somehow getting access to their preferences would advance things even more. There's still a lot of training to be done so we're hardly at the limit of what is possible for instilling taste or artistic sense in LLMs.
[–] andsoitis 2 days ago
That came from you. And it’s a deep thing.
[–] pigpop 1 day ago
[–] andsoitis 16 hours ago
[–] captainclam 1 day ago
Yeah, it is kinda wild how the infinitude of possibility suddenly makes everything so dull.
[–] zf00002 2 days ago
[–] yieldcrv 2 days ago
Younger people I know, and market to sometimes, literally avoid "plot based media" in favor of brainrot. Akin to what my generation used to call "sooo random"
People catering to it earn a lot. They don't identify as directors, but they are. They don't identify as artists either. They identify as influencers and brands.
You will never be the generation they engage with. I don't expect to base any of my choices in following trends looking for opportunities to be contingent on your affinity for movies and first/third person games.
Even when it comes to spending, they are a powerhouse because parents nationwide and worldwide give them their weekly allowances in platform credits, with no further accountability on how it's spent. There is a large audience already, trends that are full economies within a few months instead of needing to wait an entire 12 to 20 year generation for the audience to have independent purchasing power.
That's what is happening and why someone with even greater perception than me would say things that seem out of touch, but are closer to reality than you'd realize.
[–] api 2 days ago
GenZ is culturally destitute. It’s shocking and sad. Every time I think no I must just be old and I don’t know, I go and dig and… very little. There’s just not much there except brain rot and blather and music that’s absolutely derivative of previous music at best. At worst it’s musical brainrot, like “phonk” inspired stuff.
I fear GenA will largely be in the same boat.
It’s scrolling and algorithms. People blast weapons companies and stuff like Palantir or Flock or whatever here, and for rational reasons, but infinite scroll plus engagement algorithms has done more harm to humanity at scale than any of those.
[–] yieldcrv 2 days ago
yes, and its Gen Alpha that says it. they're just young though, but they are in aggregate an independent spending powerhouse
[–] api 2 days ago
I still feel like the cultural output of GenZ or lack of it is worrying. Compared to every previous generation by their age, I just don’t see a lot.
I will wait though. Maybe they will get over whatever it is.
[–] chasd00 2 days ago
And video killed the radio star. Kids these days, man.
[–] api 1 day ago
What's GenZ doing that is comparable to what any previous generation was doing in their 18-30 age bracket years artistically, musically, culturally, etc.?
I don't think it's their fault BTW. I think it's previous generations fault for creating the system that stole their attention. Every previous generation passed to the next generation a vocabulary and a set of tools to build new culture... until GenX and Millennials (my own cohorts) passed tools to stare at small rectangles and scroll.
[–] I-M-S 1 day ago
[–] godshatter 2 days ago
This is something your average person can play around with. The filmmakers have been fumbling the ball a lot lately (not all the time, though) and I can't wait to see what rises out of the average populous. Lots of crap expected, for sure, but there will be gems in there that I'm willing to bet will blow away what we've seen in the industry. Kind of how indie game companies are eating AAA's lunch lately.
[–] reilly3000 2 days ago
[–] tclancy 2 days ago
[–] noduerme 2 days ago
It turns out, some people like that. A lot of people like it, presumably because it's fast and stimulating, and everyone's a sucker for wowing FX even as movie FX have gotten worse and more or less converged with video games.
What's lacking in these movies isn't so much plot, it's character and thoughtfulness. They tell us nothing about ourselves.
From an art history class, long ago, I remember the explanation of how classical Greek culture degraded into depictions if "pathos", visible in changes in the sculpture, and how that heralded more or less the decline of the civilization. It seems obvious to me that we've undergone a similar transition. And the thing is, it's not the technology itself, which could be used to produce meaningful art. It's the lack of thought on the part of the creators and the audience.
[–] adriand 2 days ago
It’s so true. The only time I watch one of these movies is when I’m stressed and exhausted and want something so dumb I’ll fall asleep in 20 minutes.
When it comes to these “worlds” that are generated, there’s no there there. I’ve tried various of these and after three minutes I close the browser. Walking around my neighborhood is a million times more interesting. Whereas the creator-constrained and -designed experiences (GTA comes to mind) actually deliver something engaging.
[–] api 2 days ago
You occasionally see thoughtful movies. Many of them are unsurprisingly based on books. The horror genre has become this weird eddy of creativity too with interesting characters and plots and some surprisingly good acting. Of course you’ve historically had innovation in that genre, often ignored because it’s horror and thus low brow by definition.
My take on horror being creative is that it’s like old school punk, pulp novels, zines, underground music. The key there is that these are genres and styles that give you permission to suck, and therefore permission to try stuff.
If it must be high art or it must gross nine figures, you can’t suck. So you can’t innovate.
[–] noduerme 1 day ago
"Permission to suck" made me think of something even more fundamental that's relevant to the AI art conversation, and often forgotten; that the best art, the most creative work, comes when you're working around constraints. Those could be the constraints of a medium, if you're chiseling in stone and need to make certain trade-offs; or they could be monetary constraints (you can't afford a cast of 40,000 extras for a war movie, so you turn your focus on the intense local experience of a few characters). In a "necessity is the mother of invention" kind of way, having limitations forces you to think more carefully about every move, and that kind of thought is what can make something a small masterpiece instead of a large sloppy shitshow.
Given an unlimited budget, most directors will lose their heads and do terrible things, even with a good script. Having no limits brings out the worst impulses in any creative endeavor. If "AI filmmaking" comes to stand in for "unlimited budget", then I think the trend in the future will be toward smaller, more human-scale art, because artists will find constraints to work within as a means to focus.
Maybe I'm not saying this as well as I could.
[–] any_throw777 1 day ago
It's the universal themes of love, longing, caring. That's what's missing in today's slopfest sequelities of modern movie making.
I hope new tech lowers the cost of production so much it allows those with taste, vision and care to topple the mess of modern 'storytelling'. We are getting the technology, let's hope we can have the imagination.
[–] captainclam 2 days ago
Exactly. I am not de-facto against the use of AI in art. But artful use of the medium is sparse at the moment.
[–] ghurtado 2 days ago
Why would you look for that in any standard action movie?
Not every movie needs to awaken your soul to some big revelation about the universe.
The industry is called "the entertainment industry" for a reason. People are able to be entertained without deep philosophical introspection.
[–] noduerme 1 day ago
Marvel and DC are the modern versions of ancient Greek mythology, with a huge cast of mortals and demigods. The origin stories of the characters are all morality tales. In the comics, flying around, using superpowers and blowing stuff up was sugarcoating for the real stories, which revolved around the internal conflicts of the characters.
You wouldn't necessarily look for deep meaning or personal growth in a standard action movie, obviously, but somehow I feel like even "Die Hard" delivered more humanity per beat than anything Marvel has made in ages. I don't know why we need to set the bar so low.
[–] tclancy 2 days ago
[–] pimeys 2 days ago
[–] jasondigitized 2 days ago
[–] underlipton 2 days ago
I can name several, as well as something profound to be discovered in the execution of the MCU as a whole, but perhaps more salient is why so many people feel the need to tear down the straw man version of Marvel that they have in their minds.
...Oh, fine, I'll give you one:
"What is grief, if not love persevering?"[–] Timwi 2 days ago
[–] Larrikin 2 days ago
The concept feels more like a video game than a movie in the show, but presumably you could program the simulation to happen around you instead of you moving through it.
[–] LogicFailsMe 2 days ago
[–] jasondigitized 2 days ago
[–] fwlr 2 days ago
[–] altmanaltman 2 days ago
We still have podcasts but you think radio led to video games?
[–] pigpop 2 days ago
[–] jasondigitized 1 day ago
[–] tclancy 2 days ago
[–] itishappy 2 days ago
As an example, while Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy is available in at least 6 different forms of media, the movie is by far the worst.
[–] afavour 2 days ago
[–] johnfn 2 days ago
[–] tclancy 2 days ago
[–] johnfn 2 days ago
[–] ChickeNES 2 days ago
[–] captainclam 1 day ago
[–] semilin 1 day ago
[–] everforward 2 days ago
An awful lot of mainstream movies do have fairly trite plots, with a predictable film style. That's not entirely hate, sometimes I really want to see Michael Bay blow up half of LA. I don't think the next Fast and Furious movie would suffer horribly from AI writing, it's never really been an "art" kind of series anyways.
[–] soundworlds 2 days ago
[–] eru 2 days ago
[–] pigpop 2 days ago
[–] baby 2 days ago