It's very good at maintaining consistency for things that stay in frame, but I don't know that this points to it developing a strong "world simulation" like they claim.
[–] cvoss 2 days ago
[–] recursive 2 days ago
[–] msabalau 1 day ago
Just because they happen to be throwing in the option to sign up to to play with the Genie 4 into an Ultra plan, doesn't mean that this is a material part of the value prop for Gemini.
Presumably, they can learn something from how niche Ultra users interested in tech demos engage with it. If that's an upside, it's really unclear it why it would make sense for "a reveal" to promise something too expensive to deliver to such Ultra users. (None of which means that the suggestion that you are responding to is technically reasonable or possible--just that it is unclear that one should dismiss the idea because one views this through the lens of a consumer "product reveal"
Just because OpenAI had to crawl back from Sora to focus resources, and Anthropic proudly proclaims in their filing that they have been avoiding promising creative opportunities for the same reason, doesn't mean that Google can't continue to do lab/research stuff.
It would be odd if they didn't.
[–] whatisthiseven 2 days ago
Though, I am not sure well this retains temporal stability. I am just thinking about how in 3D rendering, objects are tracked as individual things and only culled, but all the data about them still exists.
Maybe the models need to reason as a 3D space first, then turn chosen objects into renderings?
[–] unsloppable 2 days ago
Or render a low fidelity 3d model for coherence and then raytrace that onto a 2d frame that is then rendered at higher fidelity.
[–] sn0n 2 days ago
[–] everforward 2 days ago
I suspect it is, because the 2D -> 3D models I've seen are terrible, but more importantly the 2D -> 3d models are terrible. Noteworthy because I suspect the number of people who have 3D scans laying around is tiny.
What you're describing is vaguely how video games work, to my understanding. There may be interesting parallels if that becomes a technique (like how distant objects are sometimes still rendered, but at a lower resolution/polygon count).
[–] david-gpu 1 day ago
Your understanding is broadly correct. There is a 3D world, and the GPU computes how it looks like from a particular viewpoint.
In essence, objects are painted back to front, so that in the final image every pixel shows the nearest visible object. The details get complicated, but the idea is simple.
[–] 93po 2 days ago
they got this working decently well for video over a year ago, maybe closer to two years ago at this point, time goes fast. so i assume it'll translate to progress in Genie too
[–] selfmodruntime 1 day ago
[–] dominotw 2 days ago
[–] rao-v 2 days ago
[–] metalrain 1 day ago
Kind of makes me think that autonomous vehicles will eventually gather better dataset (although limited to roads!), since they do have 360 degree cameras and lidar, so they can track objects before & after they are shown on certain view.
[–] rao-v 1 day ago
The model already ingests text, so you just to attach a tiny VLM head that reviews the image and read / writes scene continuity text tokens.
Once you have that you can probably just RL with scoring on continuity issues and eventually the VLM head will learn to update dense continuity tokens?
So many fun wierd experiments to run if you have some compute to mess with. There are competent open video diffusion models that you could test this concept easily enough.
[–] monk_grilla 2 days ago
I noticed several inconsistencies in things that stayed in frame. See the wall on the bridge in the Van Gogh example as they walk past it to see the other side.
> While it can maintain coherent environments over short sessions, visual details and object permanence can still shift or drift over time—especially as a simulation runs longer, after multiple complex prompt edits, or when navigating throughout the scene. Complex physical interactions, real-time audio accuracy, rendering legible text, spatial accuracy, and long-term consistency are active areas of ongoing research.