[–] proc0 1 day ago
[–] adjejmxbdjdn 1 day ago
It’s likely thinking can work in many different ways. It’s likely consciousness can also arise through many different pathways, even if evolution led to biological animals having similar consciousness/thinking pathways. But that would be the result of a common ancestor and the tremendous evolutionary advantage thinking and consciousness gave the specific species.
It wouldn’t indicate that’s the only way thinking and consciousness can occur.
[–] kuhsaft 1 day ago
All we know is that it’s a bunch of neurons activating until the person that is thinking describes what they are thinking of.
The same way a thinking AI model activates a bunch of “neurons” - and with newer thinking models utilize a hidden latent space also not understandable - to think before describing what it’s thinking of.
[–] viraptor 1 day ago
That's a big claim. Do we really?
> so if we are to conclude it happens in machines, the experiment should have identical results
Why? Same idea can have multiple different implementations with very close effective result. Both humans and spiders can walk and both use legs, right? But the details are entirely different.
[–] proc0 1 day ago
On the second one, yes there can be multiple ways that consciousness can manifest in wildly different systems, but what theory do we have that would validate these other different kinds of consciousness? Without that theory for validation the safer bet is to stick with what we already have a reference to, unless the claim is that consciousness is such an easy algorithm it can easily be stumbled upon by all kinds of systems, i.e. a bunch of matrix multiplications that doesn't even run in real-time (it executes prompts and then stops). I think that is not likely in my opinion.
[–] kuhsaft 1 day ago
We have realtime AI models
> it executes prompts and then stops
A wood frog can freeze and be “dead”, then thaw and resume life.
> consciousness is such an easy algorithm it can easily be stumbled upon by all kinds of systems
Maybe it is. There’s no reason to think that sentience and consciousness are rare.
The more you learn about biology, the more apparent it is that a lot of the qualities that we think are unique to humans aren’t.
But it doesn’t make different forms of life any less special. There’s an insane complexity and efficiency to biological systems to appreciate still.
Are humans still special? Yes. Is it because we’re sentient and conscious? No.
Should you be humane to all sentient and conscious beings? Probably?
[–] fzeindl 2 days ago
But not damage to a single neurons. You are talking about damage to thousands of neurons.
[–] kuhsaft 1 day ago
To make it equivalent you would need at least 100,000 of these models.
You could easily replicate the apparent redundancy and resiliency of the human brain with a consensus system.
The way around this is to have a predictive theory of how thoughts work, and if that is proven true, then use that to analyze the LLMs. So far we have no such theory so I think the only tool is to look at the exact behavior match.