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points by ehnto 2 days ago | 0 comments

Tucked away neatly in Australian law is the concept that a phone that is not iPhone or Android is a criminal device, similar to owning lockpicks. Something like GrapheneOS. I forget the exact term they used but it wasn't "jailbroken". The act of refraining from corporate tracking as illegal is in that way already codified.

That's why I feel it's super important hardware developers get on board with open source OS support for mobile, much like some are for Linux already. It should be the norm to not be tracked by corporate entities and advert networks, it should be the weird option to opt into that.

[–] throwaway2037 2 days ago

    > Tucked away neatly in Australian law is the concept that a phone that is not iPhone or Android is a criminal device, similar to owning lockpicks. Something like GrapheneOS.

This is untrue. It only took me one simple Google search to find the answer.

My query:

    > "is it illegal in australia to have a mobile phone that does not use iphone or android?"

Top result: https://privacydevices.net/encrypted-phones-legal-australia/

    > Owning, buying, and using an encrypted phone is legal in Australia, and so is installing a different operating system on a device you own.

EDIT

Also, dumb phones are certainly not illegal. Plenty of old folks still use them.

[–] ehnto 2 days ago

The Dedicated Encrypted Criminal Communication Device Prohibition Orders Bill 2022 introduced law that says it is illegal to posess a modified communication device (ambiguous) that is encrypted (or otherwise impedes law enforcement from snooping). It has some nuance to who it applies to in that you need to already be under suspicion of a serious crime, but there is a great deal of other pretty trivial things that can put you under suspicion. It's ambiguous enough (in my opinion) that it could pretty easily be targeted at a regular joe by an eager enforcer. I did not feel then nor now, that the qualifiers were sufficient enough to protect against abuse.

[–] throwaway2037 2 days ago

Are there any well-documented (mass media) examples of an arrest and conviction for having a smartphone that does not run iOS or Android? I doubt it.

[–] ehnto 2 days ago

I did say "tucked neatly away", not "at the forefront of law enforcement".

Anyway, it's probably nothing. Let's ignore it until it becomes an issue.

[–] anenefan 2 days ago

There were a couple of dumber phones for sale in Australia at Kmart that are neither apple or google OS. I bought one that I'd guess was imported from China, and used Moor OS as the operating system, back a couple of years I could find only the barest amount of info on the OS as I was curious to see if there were additional apps. Presently nothing to find by way of the google or ddg, even Yandex came up empty handed.

[–] ehnto 2 days ago

It shouldn't be that your options are a corpo-phone or a dumbphone though. Currently you can run something like Graphene and will probably be fine, but in NSW specifically there is law that could be used against you if you're suspected of crime.

[–] anenefan 1 day ago

Certainly as Google gets more aggressive over their android phone, options to easily load another OS to enjoy similar experience to what I uncounted with early android version would be most welcome.

I am aware that back a few years ago, 2018 iirc federal law was introduced which granted additional powers to law enforcement in regard to telecommunication equipment, though only skimming though the rules, but not greatly understood - I was left to assume if the device is discovered via a search, the law can view and copy data the device stores or accesses if they so desire.

I actually have an old pixel phone that given to me and has GrapheneOS ... but like the rest of my cheap phones, I only use them for phone calls, texts, photos, time piece, maybe once a year utilise GPS and a hotspot when the signal from the nearby towers are good enough to get some bandwidth. [Mobile networks as such that my usual location can be so iffy even receiving a simple sms in a timely manner can be a challenge]

[–] ndsipa_pomu 1 day ago

> a criminal device, similar to owning lockpicks

I would hope that merely owning lockpicks is considered benign, but the carrying of lockpicks without good reason could be considered suspicious, though not criminal in itself. However, it would be amusing to see LockPickingLawyer being thrown into a cell and then the cops hearing "click on one, binding on two..."