Hacker News
points by pllbnk 1 day ago | 0 comments
Also, it doesn't have to be tiny at all.

Why couldn't there a wealth ceiling? Let's take $1B per person, everything above that is taxed at 100%. Would it destroy the capitalist dream and people would lose motivation to grow their wealth, or would it stimulate cooperation and wealth distribution?

[–] hypfer 1 day ago
You'd probably want to have it be dynamic in some way, as most monetary systems that mostly work tend to have some level of inflation to keep things moving.

But yes. Something like that.

[–] pllbnk 1 day ago
Definitely there are many problems to this solution, such as what to do with existing billionaires. If it was up to me, I would say to them "figure it out, the late payment interest will start to accumulate soon". But realistically it could be done over multiple years and in stages to limit the negative effects.
[–] hypfer 1 day ago
The only thing that might genuinely be hard here is strategic leadership of a company.

Because while some can be transferred into something that is partially worker-owned, not all workers are suited to be given that sort of leverage.

So that might be worth pondering to come up with a solution that makes stuff not collapse. Because the reality of human resources is that the quality is underwhelming.

[–] IAmBroom 1 day ago
Disclosure: I work for a fully employee-owned company.

Frankly, I can't think of a fairer way for a company to be guided. If we choose, we can vote to hire (shudder) Elon Musk to run our company - or someone actually competent and trustworthy, from outside the employee pool.

By our charter, no one may own more than 1% of our total stock. Our collective decisions - effectively democratic representation, like the US - help decide our success. Demogoguery is almost impossible (unlike the US). Every worker is vested to some degree in our success, thanks to stock gift policies (and of course we can choose to buy more stock than that low level).

[–] hypfer 23 hours ago
Yeah exactly. I was referring to exactly such businesses.

But, to put my previous point more bluntly, if you do this, you cannot hire idiots, because they otherwise start ruining everything.

Someone needs to hire idiots though, which is why this concept cannot work for all.

The alternative to that is idiot removal, however, that has proven to be a rather complex ethics problem where we've collectively rightfully decided that it is so radioactive, we will no longer entertain such thoughts.

My point is that with such a wealth cap, we will get some co-ops, but we also will have to get something else. And I have not yet found an idea what that could be

[–] crostlybostly 1 day ago
So when society says a business owner's assets are worth more than $1B they start losing control of the business they built and other people get to tell them how to run their business? That destroys a lot IMO
[–] Tryk 1 day ago
This was the situation post WWII in most western countries.

In the US, the top federal rate was around 90% through the 1940s and early 1960s, then 70% through the 1970s.

https://taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-federal-inc...

[–] abirch 1 day ago
Income isn't wealth. Like you could tax Sergei Brin 1,000,000% of his annual salary and he'd be fine (he earns 1 dollar a year).
[–] pu_pe 1 day ago
Income isn't salary either. I'm pretty sure he earns a lot more than that.
[–] senordevnyc 1 day ago
This is such a tired talking point. Effective tax rates were nowhere near that high.

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/taxes-on-the-rich...

I found this footnote particularly interesting:

It is worth noting that, per the Piketty, Saez, and Zucman data, the tax rates of the top 0.1 and 0.01 percent of taxpayers have dropped substantially since the 1950s. The average tax rate on the 0.1 percent highest-income Americans was 50.6 percent in the 1950s, compared to 39.8 percent today. The average tax rate on the top 0.01 percent was 55.3 percent in the 1950s, compared to 40.8 percent today.

Note that those percentages include Federal, state, and local taxes.

[–] Tryk 1 day ago
I did not say "effective tax" you are moving the goal post.

It is no surprise to me that an organization originally founded by the chairman of General Motors, the president of Standard Oil and their like [0] is able to conclude:

>"The top 1 percent of Americans today do not face an unusually low tax burden, by historical standards."

Which is a wild claim to make.

Nice that you find the somewhat honest footnote, but you're citing what is essentially an opinion piece from a conservative think tank.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Foundation

[–] senordevnyc 1 day ago
They're quoting a paper by respected economists, but feel free to discard it because it doesn't fit your priors.

And no, you didn't specifically say effective tax rate, but you did say that western countries effectively had a cap on how much you could earn (presumably that's what you meant, even though we're talking about a wealth tax here, not an income tax, but I digress), given a top marginal rate near 100%, but that's simply false, given that the effective tax rate even for the absolute most wealthy Americans was closer to 50%.

It's a little like complaining that university has gotten so expensive by just looking at the sticker price, while ignoring the fact that few people actually pay that, and the median price actually paid is much lower. That doesn't mean the effective price is where it should be either, but you do your position no favors with falsehoods.

[–] Tryk 1 day ago
My statement is corroborated by the source I linked. If you found it ambiguous, the precise statement I am referring to is illustrated in Figure 2 of my source.

You called the fact I raised a "tired talking point" and referenced a contentious source. While they do cite serious academics, they seem to draw their own conclusions in the text; unburdened by their references.

[–] senordevnyc 1 day ago
Your statement that America used to have a ceiling on wealth is false, full stop. Your nominal tax rate isn’t even about wealth lol