Hacker News
points by danielvaughn 1 day ago | 0 comments
Ayn Rand gets a lot of hate from the philosophy world, and Atlas Shrugged is definitely not a good novel by any means, but you have to give her credit for basically predicting where we are now from way back in the 50's.
[–] qup 1 day ago
The Library of Congress rated it the second most influential book of all time, after the Bible.

That's why I read it.

It's very cool, especially on HN, to say how terrible it is. But, as we used to say in rebuttal: scoreboard!

[–] kbelder 1 day ago
I can understand a lot of the dislike of that novel, but her description of how the United States slowly falls apart due to culturally-reinforced incompetence is worth appreciating.
[–] netsharc 1 day ago
I was incredulous, I wondered what sort of LoC does book rankings like it's Buzzfeed, I thought "Maybe it's the LoC after a Trump-infestation or DOGE", but (1):

> In 1991 the Book of the Month Club and Library of Congress asked readers to name the most influential book in their lives: Atlas Shrugged came in second only to the Bible.

The fact that you equate a survey result (who knows who heard of the survey, or if there was a campaign to skew the results) to the LoC giving it a rating, and "that's why I read it", and you think this is a good rebuttal, reveals to me a lot about you.

(1) https://www.atlassociety.org/post/ayn-rands-atlas-shrugged-p...

[–] matwood 1 day ago
Regardless of how that one survey was done AS ends up on many best US fiction book lists. The 90s may have also been one of the AS peaks, as I recall being told to read from multiple people (family and teachers). From your own link:

The novel made the New York Public Library’s list of Best Books of the Century in 1996, and Radcliffe Publishing ranked it 92 out of the top 100 novels of the 20th century. In 1999, Atlas Shrugged was number 37 in the list of 100 Favorite Novels of Librarians. A Harris poll placed Atlas Shrugged on America’s Top 10 Favorite Book List in 2008, and The Modern Library ranked it the number one best novel published in the English language in 2009. The novel is listed as number six on Boston Library’s list of 100 Most Influential Books of the Century, and it ranks number five on the list of the 20 Most Inspirational Books ever written. Atlas Shrugged has been translated into 14 languages, including Chinese (2007).

From a story perspective, I found AS too long and preferred The Fountainhead. Were they influential to my younger self? Sure, much like the Bible was to me as an atheist. A story with both good and bad ideas to draw from.

[–] qup 1 day ago
Uh okay, but I read it on the library of Congress website.

I read the novel about 24 years ago. I was a teenager, and I read a lot of books. Seemed like a good enough reason at the time.

[–] pbrum 1 day ago
Expand, I'm interested in this take
[–] danielvaughn 1 day ago
From what I can remember (of reading the book 25 years ago), it predicted an increasing suspicion and resentment of excellence and competence, coinciding with a rise in socialist sentiments. The net result is that various aspects of society would begin to break down as the total amount of competence in the culture vanishes.

I think she attributed too much of the symptoms merely to socialism; obviously the world is more complex than that. But we've got this train crash, the ongoing issues with Boeing airplanes, several multi-billion dollar public infrastructure projects across America that have stalled and will likely never be completed (like the California high speed rail system), the list goes on.

[–] keeda 1 day ago
To me it seems the opposite is happening: the push for higher profits by the Capitalists is overriding the competence of rank and file, resulting in these disasters. And all these profits just shoring up wealth that is accruing unequally to those same Capitalists is what is inciting socialist sentiments.

To me Ayn Rand's writings always seemed like an Economics Horror story: effective at instilling dread in its readers, but of some highly unrealistic boogeyman.

[–] danielvaughn 1 day ago
When I said that the world is more complex than that, I meant that she oversimplified it. To say that the opposite has happened is also an oversimplification.
[–] keeda 1 day ago
It's a more correct oversimplification than the other one though ;-)

Like I'd be really curious to see evidence of people saying, either directly or indirectly, that "we should be suspicious of competence and excellence."

On the other hand, you already mentioned concrete evidence of money-seeking causing disasters: Boeing.

[–] rationalist 1 day ago
Did capitialism cause this train crash? I suppose it is too early to say what exactly happened.
[–] keeda 1 day ago
Right, we don't know about this one, but typically there are some corners being cut somewhere or some other money motive lurking in the background, like the Boeing one OP mentioned.
[–] whynotrand 1 day ago
Why don’t you like AS?
[–] Thegn 1 day ago
Won’t speak for the poster, but in my experience the incompetence of the average person is only exceeded by the incompetence of the ownership class. The people Ayn Rand lauded are usually the largest obstacle to actually Getting Shit Done.
[–] signatoremo 1 day ago
What is your experience of the incompetence of the ownership class?
[–] amanaplanacanal 1 day ago
Competence in what, is the question. Obviously they are competent in making money. The biggest scammers are also competent in making money too, though.

Look at the current US President, for instance. He is richer than any of us will ever be, but what exactly is his competence?

[–] freejazz 1 day ago
Look at the world around. Look at the train crash.
[–] whynotrand 1 day ago
Do any great companies have poor executive direction/leadership?
[–] snikeris 1 day ago
"You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."