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points by dudul 1 day ago | 0 comments
> it was ended abruptly, giving migratory workers no choice but to stay illegally

Or they could have "moved back south" like you said, and stayed there.

Since this "program" was ended it sounds like it should be as simple as "no papers? gotta go".

Funny how democrats always care so much about "the law" and "due process" until it relates to immigration.

[–] rtkwe 1 day ago
> Funny how democrats always care so much about "the law" and "due process" until it relates to immigration.

Funny how often the very problems republicans are so adamant about are caused by their own policies. Before the change the population flowed seasonally and had little reason to stay long term. Suddenly it's an issue but by shutting off the flow without a way to do it legally it screwed both parties. Farms still need the crops picked and the work is difficult and the pay is only good relative to the opportunities in other countries so there's no replacement domestic workforce.

[–] modo_mario 1 day ago
>Farms still need the crops picked and the work is difficult and the pay is only good relative to the opportunities in other countries so there's no replacement domestic workforce.

"for that wage."

This is wage suppresion you're supporting.

[–] rtkwe 1 day ago
Somewhat, the other side of the coin is if they can even find labor at a price that has a chance of competing with growers who have local access to cheaper labor because they're in poorer countries. The price they'd have to pay to get legal pickers is more likely to fully drive those farms out of business or at least out of those crops into more machine harvestable crops.

The main point though is that the "problem" of seasonal farm workers staying in the US illegally is to some extent artificially created by attempting to strictly enforce the border. Before that they were able to come work freely and would happily return to their home country because the process of getting into the US for the harvesting seasons was (relative to the modern process) easy, safe and cheap so there was no reason to stay in the US. Why would they, their wages would go farther in their home countries and that's where their families were and they would be able to cross back for the next major harvest they wanted to participate in.

[–] modo_mario 21 hours ago
A similar thing is said here in europe but an important caveat is that they typically had no way of drawing most support. No commonly accepted way of regularisation. Buying property. Etc.

One can easily go back but will more easily go back if there's no point in staying beyond the momentary moneymaking and essentially just no future.

It's imo how china manages to have roughly as much migration as Berlin despite sharing a border with pakistan, afghanistan, etc and without large militarised force to kick people out. Simply don't give to incentive.

[–] dudul 1 day ago
it's always funny the mental and grammatical gymnastic people will go through just to not say "but who will pick the cotton??!!"
[–] rtkwe 1 day ago
We're not talking about slaves here... and someone does need to pick the food from the vine, big ag has tried for decades to automate picking of various fruits to little success. It turns out recognizing and handling ripe fruit is a difficult task for both vision and effectors.
[–] esikich 1 day ago
It's almost as if the entire southwest used to be Mexico.
[–] lmz 1 day ago
Ukraine used to be the USSR too.
[–] dudul 1 day ago
What are you talking about? Can we avoid the Reddit/twitter style of comment? If you have an argument or a point to make just make it.

Is this one of these stupid "yeah 300 years ago this used to be on that land!!!" argument? Buddy, if so, stop living in the past. Territories are conquered all the time everywhere throughout the entirety of History.

Plus, this has nothing to do with current immigration laws.

[–] esikich 1 day ago
The point is that families didn't just evacuate when it turned into US territory. There are very strong ties to Mexico in the southwest that will never go away.
[–] jimbokun 1 day ago
The descendants of those people have always been American citizens.
[–] dudul 1 day ago
And what does it have to do with foreigners illegally coming to do these seasonal jobs? People who were here when it became US territory just became citizens.

How does it apply to the specific case mentioned in the parent? How does it relate to illegal workers who somehow are now "trapped" in the US because some weird fringe program was stopped?

[–] esikich 1 day ago
Family. Imagine if the state next to yours was no longer the US.