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points by cyanydeez 2 days ago | 0 comments

Instead of downgrading the value of LLM thought; what you probably should focus on is: Do a lot of people simply do the same thing LLMs do?

I think the answer is coming close to yes.

[–] proc0 1 day ago

There's probably an analog to it, but I really doubt it's the same or even close to it. Just think about how we read, it's not tokens it's visual representations. I think LLMs are tapping into some larger knowledge structure that we also use.

[–] kuhsaft 1 day ago

Is it not just a different form of input signal conversion? Some models use tokens to convert into vector signals. Some models don’t.

Light waves get converted into neural signals by your eyes.

Those visual representations are just neurons firing in your brain.

[–] proc0 1 day ago

It is a different signal conversion, but the question is whether that difference is meaningful or not. Light waves are much different than tokens. I think it affects the overall system of our brains much more than we currently know. Having access to so much data has probably shaped biological brains at its "core" (initial evolution stages).

[–] kuhsaft 1 day ago

> Light waves are much different than tokens

It’s just a matter of quantization/information density.

Our digital systems have to quantize information into floating point representation.

Whereas biological systems don’t. Though there is some form of quantization, as the cells in your eyes can only sense specific wavelengths.

Different thinking animals have different sensory organs.

[–] proc0 1 day ago

Right, but we don't know how much that is necessary for a conscious system. Maybe processing light has certain properties necessary for consciousness. If we don't know this then for me the safe bet is to say it is not conscious unless the system is processing at least a similar stream of information that maps to light waves.

[–] kuhsaft 1 day ago

We do know this. There are animals that are blind. There are humans born blind.

You don’t need the same sensory systems to be conscious.

[–] proc0 1 day ago

We evolved to handle light as a sensory stream of data, whether a few are born without part of the system (usually the sensors and not the processing system) is something else. My point is more that we don't really know. The exceptions are not disproving how biological systems evolved.

[–] cyanydeez 1 day ago

perhaps you should read about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia ; people who can't visualize, but have no outward physical/mental issues. People who don't dream, etc.

Consciousness is likely not a single mode inside a single person. It likely is a distributed system; you can read about all kinds of psyciatric disorders, physical changes, etc.

You are using the "best" examples of what is it to think, rather than normative or even "depraved" thought processes.