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points by wolframhempel 1 day ago | 0 comments

Before anyone complains that this removes the human aspect of art, it's worth stressing that sculptors have always looked for ways to automate work and save time (as the website itself points out).

As far back as ancient Egypt, grids and measuring tools were used to reproduce figures at different scales. Roman workshops churned out copies of Greek statues in marble and bronze, using casts and moulds. From the 18th century onwards, sculptors used outright pointing machines to transfer models into marble. James Watt, the steam engine guy, even built a mechanical sculpture-copying machine that could (somewhat) automatically reproduce reliefs and medallions.

Gothic architectural decoration wasn't about expressing the inner world of its makers in the way we think of art today. Much of it was produced by large masonry workshops using standardized geometry, wooden templates and repeated designs.

So, yeah, using a CNC machine is truly Gothic.

[–] radiorental 1 day ago

Understood and agreed, they need to construct or repair buildings efficiently...

However there is the concept of 'the resistance of the material' where the act of working with the material with bare hands and simple tools is a meditative process. Something I would have thought applicable to the contemplative and monastical life of a monk.

There's a fascinating article from BBC 4 on the topic https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0000xqt

[–] 1-more 1 day ago

They address this in a roundabout way in the article:

> Ornate pieces that used to take months for a skilled carver, now can be accomplished in a matter of days. Instead of cutting out the beauty, using the excuse that it takes too long, thus doesn’t fit into the budget, modern technology can be used to make true Gothic in all its beauty a reality again today.

The options are either use the best tool for the job, or don't do the job at all because the budget (time or monetary I'm not sure) is not there.

[–] NonHyloMorph 18 hours ago

None of the statements you paraphrase addresses what the parent referred to as the meditative work with material resistance. What you point out is the logic of efficency and capital. For monks who vow to live in poverty that's less of a concern in theory than it is for all other areas of society.

[–] busssard 14 hours ago

We live in a time of NOW. The monks probably do not want to build a cathedral in 500 years, but in 50, so that they might get some donators

[–] wolframhempel 1 day ago

Sure - but if you take especially late Gothic cathedrals like Milan's, there's 3400 Statues and 135 spires, decorated with almost 100.000 Crockets (the decorative elements on the steeple roofs). I feel these things are more mass production than meditative process...

[–] noosphr 1 day ago

They still do, it's just that the first 95% of carving things out of rock is literally getting the rock into the shape needed to start doing actual scuplting.

I'm short, it's artistic boilerate with no meaningful value to either the artist or the viewer.

[–] knicholes 1 day ago

I don't see any reason that someone couldn't still enjoy working with the material with bare hands and simple tools to meditate, even with the automated stone carving. People still play chess even though AI dominates.

[–] wduquette 1 day ago

Who's to say they don't? I'd guess the monks are using CNC for standard elements, while statuary is done by hand. (Though possibly not by the monks.)

[–] raphar 15 hours ago

I think there is a parallel with what you say and the hate/love it produces the introduction of ai in the software process. (craftman programming vs ai slop). In the end the result depends on who is behind the process and his/her quality standards.

[–] mgr86 1 day ago

I have a fascination with hobos and freight train riders and watch a fair amount of videos on Youtube about it. One of hobo had a RAG he would query about train yards and catchout points. Wasn't a full timer, but built it last spring I gathered. Not art exactly, but a similar idea. Humans like shortcuts.

[–] taion 1 day ago

One small correction/addition! While the pointing machine is 18th century, the practice of pointing itself is quite a lot older. Its precursor was the three-compass method, which was known in antiquity and recovered in the 15th century. In fact, if you look closely at Michelangelo's David, you can see the little holes on the marble used for pointing.

That said, actual Gothic sculpture and decoration fell into that gap when pointing was lost. And the frankly lower quality of most medieval sculpture more or less reflects that. And anyway, nothing wrong with neo-Gothic.

[–] RobotToaster 1 day ago

What's more gothic than dark satanic mills

[–] lucaslazarus 1 day ago

You are getting downvoted because the largely American audience here doesn’t get the reference: https://oxfordsong.org/song/jerusalem

[–] tim333 1 day ago

There doesn't seem much mention of gothic in that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_did_those_feet_in_ancient_...

[–] ninalanyon 1 day ago

One of the interpretations of the poem is that it criticises organised religion and that the mills in question are the church as an organisation represented in concrete terms by the church buildings.

[–] tim333 19 hours ago

I criticise organised religion but have never much associated it with gothic.

Blake's first mention of mills says "Get to thy Labours at the mills" which doesn't sound very church like https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Milton_a...

I looked him up and funnily enough he lived in the same area I do. The majority the churches are not gothic eg. St Pauls.

Also he lived at a time when cotton mills were booming which do look kind of dark and satanic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_mill#Remodelling_and_ex...

[–] contingencies 1 day ago

I think they moved them to Canary Wharf and covered them in glass.

[–] ghm2199 1 day ago

100% with you on effort reduction. I was making closets at home and was doing pilot holes for attaching the back 1/4" plywood. I calculated I had to do 50 odd holes for all of them. Then i discovered the brad stapler gun(all electric) and I was done in 5 mins what would have taken an hour to get right with a jig.

Wood working projects get out of hand when you add a small feature. I cannot imaging what would happen if you had to do this with stone carving!

[–] drummojg 1 day ago

For example, Rodin had it figured out. He just hired more sculptors!

[–] cellsstudio 1 day ago

Yeah 100%. Also the digital work is 100% craft.

I used to work in architecture and CNC was always seen as a powerful fabrication tool for installations and temporary structures.

To see it working in stone, and to see it creating classical motifs, is genuinely inspiring. Incredible use of technology here and am still blown away by the craft required to model this out, knowing how the stone is going to respond when cut.