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points by sim04ful 1 day ago | 0 comments
There's no universe this doesn't negatively affect the UX of the OS for non-touch users. You can't simply support (or rather you can half-arse) new affordances without contorting the rest of the already well worn paths.
[–] elxr 1 day ago
How do you think webapps work today? Is macOS UX actually well thought out to begin with? (no)

It's a nonissue when you look at the state of macOS attention to detail nowadays, regardless of which side of the fence you're on.

[–] kps 1 day ago
>Is macOS UX actually well thought out to begin with?

To begin with, yes. The decline only started around ten years ago.

[–] 72deluxe 17 hours ago
If you take an Apple computer from the early OSX releases (an iMac G4 from 2002, for example), you will be able to use it exactly as you use macos today. This indicates a success for UX.

You cannot say the same about GNOME3 or Windows 11 versus XP - Windows 11 has some baffling Settings app and also a Control Panel, being a mashup of different ideas and UI elements (and toolkits! see MMC snap-ins versus the UI of Settings).

The only difference is recent trends to dumb-down the UI to be more iPad-like, and this trend of Etch-A-Sketchification of the macos UI is not something to be welcomed.

[–] ndiddy 1 day ago
It already has, see the massive increase in UI padding in Tahoe and later. Windows and GNOME both sacrificed their UX to support touchscreen laptops years ago, Apple was one of the holdouts before that point.
[–] dbbk 1 day ago
But they have already done it. The updates are already in macOS and they have not negatively affected the UX.
[–] BoofMcQueen42 1 day ago
Density is way down on UI elements for one. OS X used to feel like a Workstation. With every release macOS feels closer to a toy. Touch is great for convenience, but not getting into the weeds with “real” work.
[–] latexr 1 day ago
Er… Yes they have. Liquid Glass is awful. It’s not only ugly (that’s preference, though), it has definitely negatively affected the UX. That’s why they’re adding sliders and options and reversal left and right.
[–] mahboi 1 day ago
Windows did this seemingly by not caring that it's also a touch screen, so not everything in the system is touch-friendly. It's still fine for many situations.
[–] hirvi74 1 day ago
I can actually see a possibility where this improves UI/UX a bit. One being the removal of some many hover-over UI elements, e.g., the (x) button on notifications do not display unless a mouse is hovering over the notification badge.

So, it may makes things a little easier for some GUI scripting. I can also see the UX improving for some disabilities, but I know that is merely coincidental rather than intentional.

[–] gloxkiqcza 1 day ago
> e.g., the (x) button on notifications do not display unless a mouse is hovering over the notification badge

Same applies to spaces where there's also delay applied before it appears for whatever reason. It would be nice if this fixed (on non-touch Macs as well).

[–] embedding-shape 1 day ago
Does that mean you also believe the same to be true for mouse affordances ruining it for keyboard users and vice-versa? Or "touch" is special in this regard?
[–] wpm 1 day ago
Mouse affordances don't usually ruin it for keyboard preferrers. Keyboard shortcuts and control are often an afterthought or downright written off because "they can just click" but thats down to laziness or lack of care than some hard and fast rule. However, a keyboard affordance is usually invisible, and a mouse affordance isn't, so they can very happily co-exist without affecting one another. For instance, the Alt modifiers in menus in classic Windows, those have almost no effect at all on anyones ability to click the menu item with a mouse.

Touch affordances and UI does have to be visible, and there is only one screen. So the touch affordances and mouse affordances are mutually exclusive: targets get larger, padding expands, UI gets dumbed down, etc etc.

[–] sim04ful 1 day ago
well put!
[–] booty 1 day ago
I can't think of cases where mouse affordances necessarily, intrinsically make things worse for keyboard users.

Of course, there's the extremely common case of keyboard support being half-assed or missing from GUI apps. But that's not mouse affordances making things worse, that's developers just not having the time or inclination to have great keyboard support.

Whereas, touch affordances seem like they'll be a lot more disruptive.

[–] sunaookami 1 day ago
Just look at Windows 8?
[–] wahnfrieden 1 day ago
Those changes are already in the latest macOS. So feel free to share your opinion on what we’ve already been using instead of speculating.
[–] robmccoll 1 day ago
I'm still on Sequoia for this reason. I want a UI optimized for displaying text content and mouse and keyboard control. Mostly keyboard. I definitely don't want the larger border radius on the windows that would seem to be designed for touch.
[–] mrpippy 1 day ago
The big UI changes for touch were years ago, with Big Sur
[–] cruano 1 day ago
Isn't that his point though ? Their plan seems to half-ass touch support (i.e. the menu bar, minimize/close buttons, etc. all stay in their current size), so it seems like a waste of hardware to include a touch screen just for very little functionality. If instead they make the UI friendly to fat fingers, they'd very much affect the mouse/trackpad experience.
[–] ipsum2 1 day ago
Most Windows laptops have had touch for a very long time now.