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points by rubicon33 1 day ago | 0 comments

Not me personally, but my wife does. She will not buy a laptop unless it has touch screen. "So get an iPad" everyone tells her.

No, you don't get it. She wants the keyboard, she wants a first class desktop experience, and she wants a touch screen.

Watching her work is... different. She mostly uses her laptop on her lap, on the couch, scrolling and "clicking" with touch... and when she needs to type something she slides it back slightly, and types. Almost never uses the track pad.

[–] MrMetlHed 1 day ago

This is how my 8-year-old works on her school Chromebook. And all of the kids at her school that I've seen using laptops are similar. Touch the screen to interact, type on the keyboard. I think they're just wired to believe every screen should be touchable and go with whatever is easiest for them in the moment.

[–] joenot443 1 day ago

A touchscreen is a way more natural and intuitive interface than a mouse cursor driven by a trackpad.

If I'd never used a laptop before I'd probably do the exact same thing as the kids!

[–] MrMetlHed 1 day ago

Exactly. Why on Earth would they default to touching something away from the screen that's an imperfect map to it when they can just touch the thing they want directly? I've seen so many people saying they don't understand and would never use a touchscreen on a laptop, and I just have to think they've not really been around non-technical adults or children.

[–] ulbu 19 hours ago

because it’s much further away. if you have your desktop adapted to be keyboard-driven, things that are far apart in 2d space may be very close in logical user-event space. same holds here. moving a single finger and clicking usually requires much less movement. and movements compound.

and your observation is not at all universal. moving a vehicle is much easier via a mapping to a more abstract control, as opposed to controls resembling the effector. this abstract control also fits many vehicles. the same is true for all sorts of controls.

[–] ahartmetz 1 day ago

Because the ergonomics are shit. Holding your arm up is tiring.

[–] ghusto 1 day ago

For interacting with a UX that's designed around keyboard and mouse? I get how it's intuitive to reach out and touch something you can see, but in terms of much of the UX it doesn't make any sense.

[–] 72deluxe 21 hours ago

True, but this is only the case if the track pads are absolutely awful, like you get in very low quality Windows laptops.

[–] saturn8601 1 day ago

You lose control without a desktop and mouse. I can't even begin to count the number of times I got hit with a dark pattern where an app steers me in a direction that I can't click out of because on touch interfaces, you have less control.

[–] fsloth 1 day ago

" you have less control."

Keyboard and mouse don't give you any more autonomy over the application developers state machine.

I'm not sure I understand the claim of "being in control". The UX is different, sure, often. But that's not "control" over the design of the application.

[–] ghusto 1 day ago

I feel so constricted and frustrated when I have to use my phone. I often even put things off until I can get back to my computer.

On a touchscreen, I can tap. That's it. Select? Tap. Move? Tap. Highlight? Tap. The only one that makes sense is draging for moving, but even that's a pain in the butt because it often misinterprets the tap+hold duration that's necessary before it works. When I'm editing text (navigating, cut-n-paste, etc.), it gets what I want wrong more often than it gets it right, I mean like 80/20.

With the phone, they had a green field to design an entirely new UX for touch interfaces, so there's no legacy to blame.

[–] mplewis 1 day ago

Sure they do, with KB/M against a browser app you can open the dev console, you can inspect element, you can do all sorts of things that you can't do in a native app for touchscreen only.

[–] fsloth 1 day ago

Browser developers implemented the dev console there. You are not reaching it ”just because you have kb/m”. You can reach dev tools as easily via touch on a pc with touch support.

[–] saturn8601 1 day ago

Exactly. I was planning to write these reasons but I refrained because the use cases are endless. It boils down to the fact that you can more easily escape the current context for something else.

[–] satvikpendem 20 hours ago

That's an OS issue not a touch vs keyboard issue, therefore not related to what we're talking about. A phone can run an OS with devtools if you so choose, and a laptop with a desktop OS can have a touchscreen.

[–] Andrew_nenakhov 1 day ago

Except that for computer screen you need to hold your hands up in the air, while with mouse and keyboard they basically rest upon the surface. That's far less tiring.

[–] dmd 1 day ago

Huh that's really interesting because my 12 year old has been using a school-provided chromebook for 3 years now and she and all her peers almost NEVER use the touchscreen, they use the trackpad almost exclusively. And I've watched her using her ipad too, and she uses the touchscreen when she's in (her words) "that kind of app" but if she's in Google Docs she's 100% trackpad.

[–] MrMetlHed 1 day ago

I wonder if by the time she's 12 she'll switch over more and more. I suspect that the trackpad is just a little too disconnected in her brain for now, especially since we don't really do a lot of screens / laptops. I don't think pinching to zoom and scrolling quickly and tapping things far away from where the cursor is will go away easily though.

[–] youniverse 1 day ago

Yes unless you've seen nontech people use a touchscreen you won't get the appeal.

Some people don't intuitively use trackpads so they'll use a mouse and if they discover touchscreens that becomes a feature that needs to come with any laptop after that.

[–] rubicon33 1 day ago

Yea, it's pretty funny seeing all the posts here from people who cannot fathom why a product like this exists.

It's pretty eye opening really. If it weren't for seeing someone close to me do it, I'd be in the same camp, wondering who in their right mind would use their laptop like that.

[–] ghusto 1 day ago

I've seen someone close to me do it, and I still don't understand. I've asked her to explain why she fumbled around trying to perform a simple cursor move instead of moving the mouse, and I got a vague "it's easier" (it wasn't easier).

[–] rubicon33 1 day ago

I've had the exact same conversation with my wife... I think "easier" is subjective. In her mind its easier to do it the way she's doing it. shrug

[–] ksec 1 day ago

Same here. I couldn't understand it until like you and the comments before, saw younger generation all thought screens by default should be touchable, and other people casually scroll on the display and then return to keyboard for typing.