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points by random3 1 day ago | 0 comments
This comes as straight out of PC vs Mac commercials. You confuse technology with actual products.
[–] Grombobulous 1 day ago
And Apple apologists confuse stale designs, unchanged chassis, and subpar spec sheets for “intentional design” and “holistic products.”

I think some of those folks should face some facts:

- The notch on the MacBook Air and Pro lineups is unnecessarily huge and embarrassing. It’s obvious that Apple intended to implement FaceID and couldn’t get it into the notch by their deadline, then they just left the huge notch there with barely any software consideration for it, like how your menu bar icons and menus can just disappear if there isn’t enough room with no recourse.

- There is no design or cost reason for Apple to be this late on offering a touch screen on their laptops. There is no downside to a customer who buys one and doesn’t want a touch screen, they can just disable it.

- The 60Hz displays on the Air are not necessary for any kind of product quality or cost reason and are simply below-par for what you can get on similarly priced Windows laptops. 100% artificial product line anchoring.

- The idea that there was no such thing an OLED display that was “good enough for a MacBook Pro” before 2026 is absurd.

[–] calf 1 day ago
But Apple laptops are still the best recommended laptops on the market, despite these extra costs and margins passed onto the consumer, why is that?
[–] bigyabai 1 day ago
Marketing. macOS has a minority share of desktop operating systems, "best recommended laptops" is an easily-won Keynesian beauty contest.

But, that lowest-common-denominator design philosophy gave us innovations like the Butterfly Keyboard, Touch Bar, Dynamic Island, and now a touchscreen. None of those features inspire much faith in Apple's ability to listen to what their users want from the Macbook. Most people I know want a more powerful iPad, not an iPad-like Mac.

[–] calf 23 hours ago
So it cannot possibly be explained as Macs/macOS are still a better product despite some obvious flaws and drawbacks? It has to be cynical marketing and some kind of consumerist corporate conspiracy? I don't get your argument.
[–] Grombobulous 18 hours ago
If Apple is the better product why are they #4 in PC sales?

Lenovo sells over 2x more personal computers than Apple.

[–] calf 13 hours ago
You must be trolling if half dozen replies in this thread you want me to think that Marvel films are better than art films because they have a bigger market share. This is not worthy of serious reply and it seems the problem is your worldview, not the merit of any argument about Apple.
[–] bigyabai 14 hours ago
Macs and macOS have a very thin market segment: college students, mobile devs and prosumers. They market to them heavily, earning the Mac their recommendation.

Outside of those niches, in places like game development, backend work, high-performance ARM datacenters, edge compute and personal computing, Macs are a second-class-citizen and rarely get recommended. macOS has a niche, those people love it, but it has not broken out into the larger market for decades now. Macs are a minority, still.

[–] calf 13 hours ago
Macs are highly recommended by people in the know, like people in computer science departments over the last decade, by HN commenters and specialty magazines, etc. Those are better signals than the superficial market picture you paint.

They are great devices but they cost more. So you would not see them "recommend" in those industries you cite. Also it is reductive to accuse Apple of marketing.

What's much more plausible is that despite being a great product it also costs more. Not marketing nor the fact of being a minority.

It's also weird because your argument disingenuously ignores the wealth of HN commentary in the past about how great the M-chip MacBooks are. It's like ignoring actual reasons and doing this kind of armchair technical market analysis to prove one's point. It's a troll intellectual move to attribute success to marketing and failure to "because it is unpopular". Seeing your other replies in this thread suggests a common pattern of bias, not a one-off.

[–] bigyabai 12 hours ago
> Macs are highly recommended by people in the know

This is exactly what I said in the last comment. "People in the know" is a statement that narrows down your audience to a select few groups that Apple narrowcasts to. You arbitrarily ignored the rest of the market as being unqualified to shop for themselves. We have the usage statistics that prove macOS is not a popular alternative to Windows or even Chromebooks. The vast majority of PC shoppers do not buy Macs.

You might call it "disingenuous" to ignore your cherry-picked audience, but I did acknowledge the niches that Apple caters to. You are the one that is unable to reconcile Apple's halo of quality with their mediocre sales performance and rejection by the market at-large. Macs make Apple less revenue than novelty devices like the iPad, and the iPhone blows it out of the water in terms of install base. Apple Silicon isn't even the highest-demand high-performance ARM chipset right now, Nvidia's Grace SOC is. And Grace sucks, but it's modular and scalable enough to replace Apple's discontinued Mac Pro niche.

Cut it however you want; M-series Apple Silicon is chopped liver even in the middle of a compute shortage. The HN echo chamber said that unified memory and AArch64 would irreversibly change the direction of PC design forever, but both of those features have been ignored by other OEMs for the past 7 years. Instead, Apple Silicon is starting to copy design characteristics of competing hardware like Nvidia's CUDA GPUs. So, maybe you shouldn't trust "people in the know" to give you an honest accounting of how Apple Silicon competes with the computers that most people are buying. Their subjective statements cannot be extrapolated into an objective metric.

[–] neya 1 day ago
Because, Macs are the only products and the rest which use OLEDs since 2016 aren't, right?
[–] ksec 1 day ago
Do they have the same OLED? Same PPI? Same Tandem OLED? The First Tandem OLED on PC only came in 2022 IRRC, and laptop in 2024 / 2025.

Switching to OLED in 2016 makes zero sense when brightness and burn in issues are not solved.

[–] Danox 1 day ago
Single OLED doesn’t count but Tandem OLED does…
[–] cpursley 1 day ago
> Macs are the only products

The only ones that work as a unified product, yes.

[–] neya 1 day ago
WTF is even a "unified product"?

It's a fucking laptop. All laptops are "unified products". Stop throwing random jargon to cover up for the lack of merit to your argument.

[–] Danox 1 day ago
Apple is the only vertical computer company left from the 1980s. That’s operating system plus hardware under one roof, all the other companies are dead Sun, SGI, Digital etc…, Microsoft and Google dabble in hardware and both do nothing but lose money in the hardware area because just releasing a Me-too badly made product doesn’t work or I should say isn’t profitable.
[–] neya 1 day ago
> Apple is the only vertical computer company left from the 1980s.

> Microsoft and Google dabble in hardware and both do nothing but lose money in the hardware area

How is losing money relevant here, you started off the argument by saying Apple is the only vertical computer company left. Which is clearly not true and as your own comment contradicts.

You should try using a Surface Pro once. It is what the MacBook Pro is becoming now, only it is 5 years ahead. Yes, Windows sucks. But, the form factor and its usability is unmatched. I wouldn't just write it off as "dabbling".

[–] bigyabai 14 hours ago
I wouldn't bother. If you scroll through Danox's comment history, he repeats these same few talking points without any ability to substantiate his claims:

"Apple will bring memory in-house" (no further explanation, apparently)

"Vertical computers need a comeback" (ignoring why they originally died?)

"$GROUP needs to buy an ARM ISA license" (Arm has to make it worthwhile)

It's beyond my understanding how people can read the news and come up with this stuff. Perhaps it is beyond the commentor's understanding, as well.

[–] neya 4 hours ago
One big problem with HN recently is the sheer number of bots - this account's pattern looks eerily similar to one and the next big issue which has been an issue for over a decade now is many folks here own Apple stock. They have a conflict of interest and their arguments are extremely skewed in favor of Apple.