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points by mhb 1 day ago | 0 comments

It says it includes "Open Material Mode" which let's you "...print with any 405 nm photopolymer resin or 1064 nm powder on Formlabs 3D printers..."

[–] numpad0 1 day ago

I believe the Open mode in Form printers disable couples of interesting features that don't seem strongly connected to material properties of resin used, like resin recovery to tank and vat stirring wiper.

Form resin vats/tanks/tray/bed/whatever you call it are also not just proprietary, but their equivalent of FEP film is not replaceable. The resin vat usually have what is referred to as FEP film, a thin transparent Teflon sheet at the bottom of about a phone screen protector thickness and durability, stretched and pre-tensioned like a drum. The non-adhesion performance of film affects print quality, and it needs replacement eventually(I believe it is characterized as after x thousand layers printed, internally by printer manufacturers). On most printers, the replacement film can be bought and installed by the user. Formlabs printers use something other than regular FEP, and uses tool-less assembly that cannot be reversed, and therefore the whole proprietary tank needs to be discarded and replaced.

It's like Bambu Lab but the printbed is proprietary too and heated bed turns off for non-Bambu filaments. As if proprietary nozzles was not enough.

[–] torginus 21 hours ago

Yeah, but Bambu parts are extremely cheap considering their quality.

[–] krisoft 23 hours ago

> and vat stirring wiper

The printer model in question doesn’t have that feature.

[–] augment_me 1 day ago

The amount of upselling, extra parts necessary for basic functionality, predatory resin pricing and specific open "modes" that are free to be subjects to amendment by contract makes this seem like a cash grab for investors rather than serious product. Really sour taste in the mouth from this.

Just buy an open source version from China that has the necessary hardware in an open format and let Claude adjust the software if there are concerns.

[–] jdboyd 1 day ago

I'm unclear what the open source version from China of a resin printer is. Creatlity and Elegoo don't appear to be at all it as they lock you to the chitubox ecosystem.

[–] coupdejarnac 1 day ago

I use prusaslicer and uvtools with my Elegoo Saturn. No proprietary lockin. I also own a Prusa, so I don't feel bad using their software with another brand.

[–] jdboyd 5 hours ago

Thank you. I didn't know that worked.

[–] Hackbraten 22 hours ago

Same here, PrusaSlicer and a custom uvtools workflow with an Anycubic Mono M7 Pro.

[–] bsder 1 day ago

> Just buy an open source version from China

References and links?

There is currently no open source version of the high resolution monochrome LCDs. The LCDs and their drivers lock you into the Chitu ecosystem.

The problem, as Chitu figured out, is that as soon as you cough up the NRE to make the LCDs and make it publicly available, EVERYBODY will copy you and then there will be no profit left to sink the NRE that you just spent.

[–] Dylan16807 1 day ago

I don't follow. If you developed a special screen can't you profit just fine off selling the screen? Why would locked drivers be needed?

[–] ssl-3 1 day ago

Maybe you could be happy with that, or perhaps I could be as well, but you and I aren't ChiTu. And ChiTu is free to do whatever they want (including doing nothing at all).

And that matters because statements like "just buy an open Chinese printer" are non-starters. The machines themselves have the soul of ChiTu inside of them and openness isn't really their jam.

So while the PC software that produces the layer images can be replaced, the printer's brains stays the same.

(This is very different compared to the world of conventional world of FDM printers, wherein: It's just some sensors, motors, heaters, and sensors; a screen, if present, is optional. A person can replace the brainbox of a traditional FDM Cartesian rig with open, off-the-shelf parts and be printing something in an afternoon, and there's a whole industry providing parts to support this kind of thing.

ChiTu isn't that way.)

[–] Dylan16807 15 hours ago

Well I don't understand the paragraph you wrote starting with "The problem, as Chitu figured out". Did they figure out an actual problem or did they hallucinate a problem?

Does their proprietary software affect their profit at all?

[–] ssl-3 14 hours ago

I did not write that paragraph, my friend.

I don't know why ChiTu does whatever they do. All I know is that demonstrate a trend of keeping their source buttoned up instead of open.

[–] Dylan16807 14 hours ago

> I did not write that paragraph, my friend.

My bad.

But that paragraph is what my original question is about.

[–] zimpenfish 1 day ago

* If you buy the "Form Studio 1 Resin Tank Pro" extra at $79 because the included tank "is not compatible with Tough 1500 Resin or materials needing to utilize Open Material Mode"

[–] y1n0 1 day ago

OMG $79 more! That ruins everything!

[–] geerlingguy 1 day ago

You need to buy a tank anyway, which is $50 or so — that works with their new Alpha resins. The slightly more expensive tank is necessary only for their engineering-grade resins (only a couple are certified for the Studio 1 so far) and 'OMM' (Open Material Mode), which as mentioned above, comes out of the box on the Studio 1.

(Not replying to you directly, but generally to this thread)

[–] zimpenfish 21 hours ago

$79 per consumable tank, yes, which is rated for 75000 layers (according to [0]) which is "approximately 190 prints with an average height of 39 mm at a layer height of 100 µm" - not that long if you're printing regularly.

In contrast, I can get 6 FEP sheets for my Mars 2 Pro for $21 which don't appear to have any official lifetimes but generic internet advice says "40-50 prints" on the low side. That'd be 240 prints for $21 compared with 190 prints for $79.

[0] https://www.igo3d.com/en/formlabs-form-studio-1-resin-tank-p...

[–] 650REDHAIR 1 day ago

$79 per tank.

Along with some issues with the screen and the non-pro resins.

It’s anti-consumer.

They want to be the HP/Bambu of resin printers.

[–] roboror 17 hours ago

You can use any filament with Bambu printers

[–] onion2k 1 day ago

I'm not suggesting Formlabs would do this, but advertising the $79 add-on and then making very few of them available would be a way for a manufacturer to look open while actually not supporting openness.

[–] avianlyric 1 day ago

The $79 addon is also needed to use all of Formlabs existing engineering grade resins, which are more expensive than the Alpha resins. The engineering grade Tough 1500 is already validated on the Studio 1, and requires the $79 tank, plus is a major selling point of this printer.

There no reason for FormLabs to limit supply of the $79 tanks, it would also limit their ability to sell their more expensive resins to Studio 1 customers, and also removes a clear pathway to get people to upgrade to their more expensive machines, capable of working with their even more complex, and expensive, engineering resins.

[–] bb88 1 day ago

Isn't that the Prusa model? IIRC Prusa would release something, and then force you to get on a waitlist.

I'm not saying I hate Prusa here, I'm saying that limited availability is a common practice to drive hype.

[–] geerlingguy 1 day ago

I don't even think they're driving hype, they just have a problem common in the hardware world, they are far too optimistic in their shipping timeline.

Versus a company like Bambu who seems to ramp up production now, in advance of selling the product.