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points by tannhaeuser 1 day ago | 0 comments

I don't think you can say that. Windows 10+ has a tablet mode that is completely detached from desktop mode, and it's a global toggle. Switching on tablet mode brings full-screen, upscaled, simplified explorer and settings, and switches off the classic desktop launcher with paper bin, shortcuts, etc. in favor of a larger "Start"-type menu launcher. What deeper and experimental integration there was in Windows 8 had just been removed as it became clear MS couldn't quite sell into the iPad/Android tablet market or compete in terms of power management. After stripping most of Windows 8 innovations, what remains is a touch keyboard, touch mouse emulation, and a few affordances in explorer to make tablets not outright terrible, with the target audience education and mbas interested in mobile powerpoint and web/mail.

[–] disposedtrolley 1 day ago

Windows 10 had a tablet mode. Windows 11 does not - it just appropriately scales up the padding and size of some UI controls to make them easier to tap.

[–] thewileyone 47 minutes ago

Which is a horrible interface IMO.

[–] Grombobulous 1 day ago

I’m failing to see where there’s some kind of downside here. What you describe doesn’t really sound like a bad experience.

[–] unsloppable 1 day ago

You cant figure out how those kinds of requirements might influence or curtail development in the non touch parts of the system?

We saw the same thing happen with mobile first on websites.

[–] mpyne 1 day ago

The introduction of the mouse led to developers paying less attention to keyboard shortcuts and function keys, but I don’t see anyone seriously saying computers should not have mice.

Or for that matter, that adding support for game controllers (something that has actually happened with Linux desktops) would led to curtailed development of non-controller parts.

[–] flohofwoe 56 minutes ago

> The introduction of the mouse led to developers paying less attention to keyboard shortcuts and function keys, but I don’t see anyone seriously saying computers should not have mice.

Well, a lot of devs did move back to the terminal ;)

[–] Grombobulous 1 day ago

Have you found some kind of performance or other detriment of the mere support of touch screens or is this just theoretical?

[–] jasomill 15 hours ago

I've never hard particularly good experiences with using Windows laptops as tablets, but mostly on account of form factor rather than software.

The sweet spot for me is the iPad mini, but I tend to use tablets as glorified e-readers and video players; the only serious work I do on them is reading.

With that said, I have zero problem with touchscreens or convertable form factors. In fact, I used a Surface Pro for years as my main laptop, and it was one of the best Windows laptops I've used.

But again, I'm not a big fan of mobile devices as primary computing devices unless I'm actually working on the go.

Even for commuting back and forth between an office and a home office, I'd rather just put something along the lines of a Mac Studio in a bag — for a few months last year, it was actually a SFF (not micro, weighed about 10 kg) Dell OptiPlex in an aluminium briefcase, which was fine!

[–] asadotzler 1 day ago

It's a fine experience. It's not what Apple is doing though. Apple is doing the half way experience that will leave all unhappy.

[–] Grombobulous 19 hours ago

But even an half-way experience is an improvement for a feature that costs nearly zero dollars to include.

One of the most common actions among all computer users, zooming and centering a photo, is easier with a touch screen.

Even adding just that one thing is worth having a touch screen for.

Another example: working in the iOS simulator is now way easier because you can touch your apps that you're developing for iOS and iPadOS. And, by the way, macOS can run iOS/iPadOS apps directly from the App Store, so if there's something you really want to run that you just can't find a macOS equivalent for, there you go, you can just do it and interact with the app more naturally.

[–] freehorse 1 day ago

The touchscreen laptops I have seen last years are just normal windows laptops that happen to have a touchscreen, which I assume is what you refer to as "half way experience". How are you supposed to use it any differently anyway when you cannot actually turn it into a tablet anyway by separating screen and keyboard? And my impression was not that anybody was unhappy anyway.

[–] naravara 14 hours ago

The only touchscreen laptop I ever understood the appeal of was that one Lenovo one where you can fold the bottom back to make it a literal tablet or prop up as a kickstand.

The value of “tablet mode” would mainly be if I want to do content consumption, like watch video or read a book, while on the couch or in bed since it allows a wider range of postures you can sit or lay in when you don’t have to rest it on a flat surface.

If you can’t fold it back I just don’t get the appeal.

[–] cjarrett 1 day ago

The downgrade to touch is fine for basically everyone. People clutching pearls are simply mostly uninformed or specifically worried about deep edge cases from some stupid mountain of stupid superiority.

[–] freehorse 1 day ago

"Tablet mode" was not necessary to use for touchscreen, though. As far as I remember you can have full touchscreen functionality in the default mode of windows. I had a surface pro 4 for some years and I do not remember using tablet mode ever.

Windows 8, which was tablet-oriented, was one of these skip generations of windows that nobody cares about in the end, and when the next comes everybody forgets. I never installed it anyway. I have not owned a touchscreen laptop myself since then, but from friends that have and I have used theirs, it is like OP described as a "harmless additional feature/why not", something that just makes certain interactions a bit faster.

But especially on an actual laptop, one that you cannot just separate the screen from the keyboard, stuff like "virtual keyboard" and "tablet mode" matter much less because it is not like you will take it and use it as a pure tablet anyway.

[–] mrtesthah 1 day ago

Sounds like touch screens on laptops are so great! I sure am excited about the future of touch screen Macs! /s