Hacker News
points by sailfast 1 day ago | 0 comments
Whatever your feelings about ICE and this administration, there are probably some undercover folks in real danger at the moment. Probably doing some real work to stop some real abuses that you’d want them to stop. (Not saying all - but likely some / many to be in that program)

So - while I might agree that secretive domestic organizations like MI5 should not exist and sunlight is good for government, I feel for the families of the folks that might catch a bullet because of this.

[–] simoncion 1 day ago
> Whatever your feelings about ICE and this administration, there are probably some undercover folks in real danger at the moment.

I'll say the same thing that no one with access to a microphone said during the 2013 NSA data leaks:

What makes you think that the Bad Guys didn't already have access to this information? The folks that should have detected this clearly didn't. [0] Given that the Good Guys didn't learn about this until it was made public, neither they nor we have any idea of knowing how many Bad Guys have been siphoning off this data and for how long.

[0] In this specific incident, Okta appears to be claiming that there has been no breach despite claims that it is the source of the information. Back in 2013 -given that the NSA would often claim something that would be quickly countered by the publication of yet another leaked document- it was pretty clear that the NSA had little idea of what data had been released to the press.

[–] sailfast 1 day ago
I’m not saying that at all. I’m merely suggesting that there’s potential that non-state actors like a local human smuggling ring, drug ring, or human trafficking operation may now be able to easily type in some name and figure out they have been infiltrated.

Of course it’s possible some bad guys had this. But probably not all of them.

EDIT: I would also not equate these leaks to the NSA leaks in terms of resources and sophistication required to know about the NSA programs vs potential public access on the open internet with this one. Resources and intelligence required seems quite a higher bar, but that’s just me being an armchair quarterback.

[–] simoncion 1 day ago
> I’m merely suggesting that there’s potential that non-state actors like a local human smuggling ring, drug ring, or human trafficking operation may now be able to easily type in some name and figure out they have been infiltrated.

...what exactly do you imagine the Bad Guys would do with the information that they've likely been siphoning off of the systems of ICE and -in the past- the NSA? Do you imagine that they'd be exclusively distributing it via Sneakernet? Just like the Good Guys, the Bad Guys also have access to IT guys who know how to set up a login portal... and the well-resourced ones are totally capable of setting up things akin to SIPRNet.

[–] sailfast 1 day ago
I’ll update my threat model to include sophisticated non-state human traffickers or smugglers that are all sharing intel with each other if that’s what you’re suggesting? Or perhaps just selling in the dark to whomever is buying? Sounds like you know this is happening?

I’m not making a good guy / bad guy judgment here FWIW. I do, however, find it less likely a smaller scale non-state operation would bother hacking a government agency or buying info on the open market. Sounds like it’s a higher priority than I thought.

Makes sense for larger orgs at higher levels - but I admit my mental model didn’t think about parallel private attempts to exploit, sell, use and otherwise secure comms. It was a blind spot. Seemed too leaky and obvious given the incentives to leak information - but I clearly don’t understand bad guys very well.

[–] chneu 1 day ago
Hell nah. They signed up for this. They knew exactly what their mission was. Stop defending people who were recruited to deport, and in many cases assault, innocent people.

Making lame excuses for "the good guys" reinforces that these people are doing good. They arent.

Your excuse will be used against you as soon as it's convenient to them.

[–] reallydoingthis 1 day ago
And who's going to make them pay? You? What do you have planned? Can you take the heat after?
[–] florkbork 15 hours ago
You are going out on a limb there to pretend the justice system cannot prosecute, jail people engaged in criminal activity.
[–] Bluescreenbuddy 12 hours ago
Stop being an obtuse bozo
[–] sailfast 1 day ago
I don’t personally believe that everyone at ICE is specifically focused on this administration’s efforts (most are of course and many have quit in protest). In the past, the agency has done work that you’d probably want done around human smuggling and trafficking, anti-terrorism (actual terrorism) etc, and I wouldn’t paint all agents with such a broad brush. People stick around in the hopes they can do a good job again when the next guy lands. Sometimes!

Anyway - I just wanted to point out that these things can have consequences in the real world for people that aren’t necessarily the evil people you paint a picture of in your head. This isn’t a “oh just a few bad apples” thing - on the contrary that agency is quite rotten and should be disbanded.

Not a value judgment. Just sayin’ that this dump is 53+ certified undercover legal names out in the open.

[–] spl757 1 day ago
ICE, today, is an illegal militia that appears to have killed at least 3 citizens in cold blood. Bad actors get away with it when good actors look the other way and do nothing. If you work for ICE right now, you know just how unpopular they have become. You have to bend the knee to be in this administration, so FAFO I guess.
[–] sailfast 1 day ago
Unfortunately it’s very much a legal militia until proven otherwise.

Know that you don’t have to bend the knee to work for the government. You still have your oath, your union, and the knowledge that this ends in two years. Many have left, but not all. Those who stayed don’t necessarily agree or like what is happening.