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points by vrganj 22 hours ago | 0 comments
In the case of the US, this view is pure propaganda.

Peace from who? Mexico? Canada? Which country is going to invade you?

All the American military does is bomb Middle Eastern countries and leave a huge mess. I do not believe US security is helped by bombing weddings and schools. I would even argue that it worsens it, by creating a bunch of people that lost their loved ones to those acts and that then turn to terrorism as a means of revenge.

[–] justinhj 14 hours ago
"we don't need military because we live surrounded by peaceful neighbours" yes and the world was once nonstop warfare among tribes. it's child like to think peace just arose magically and does not need to be protected
[–] vrganj 14 hours ago
You know what protects peace? Cooperation.

The countries of Western Europe used to be at a state of continuous war for literal centuries, horrible atrocities inflicted on one another.

They all had their fancy armies, and they were all tempted to use them. Gotta get your money's worth, y'know?

Then they founded the world's most successful peace project, the European Union.

No wars between members since.

This adolescent behavior of threatening gestures is counterproductive and only leads to more conflict.

More mature societies have figured that out already.

[–] rdiddly 13 hours ago
Why stop there? Include Russia in the EU. Surely they'll be impressed by your maturity and cooperation and be inspired to maturely cooperate. Then you can rely on them to protect you from the US, instead of the opposite situation that you've enjoyed for 80 years.
[–] vrganj 12 hours ago
I agree. The most painful mistake of European foreign policy in the last decades was not swooping up Russia in the 90s.

Again, the idea of "military protection" is overly primitive and simplistic. If we had integrated them in our system, we could've given them rule of law as we have done with many an applicant state (think other post-Soviet countries!) and nurtured peace through fostering mutual dependence.

We failed to spread the values of enlightenment and now we are paying the price.

The whole protection racket thing that's now exploding in our face would've been unnecessary and could've been avoided.

Violence is the language of the weak.

We've seen time and time again how ineffective it is, most recently when y'all tore up the deal the EU negotiated with Iran and instead went back to more primitive ways, with predictable results. Before that, in Afghanistan, where after countless dead the same group is in power again. When even is the last time your approach worked? WW2? Might be time to move with the times.

[–] rdiddly 11 hours ago
The times today are built upon yesterday's times. You can't arrive where you are without passing through where you were. Could the EU have even formed if it hadn't had a nuclear power protecting it from 1945 to 1993 and beyond? We'll never know. But I'm sure you would've had to waste money on an arms race with the Soviets, as the US did.

I'm explicitly not talking about all the Middle-Eastern misadventures here, I find those as baffling and unjust as you do. I'm only referring to defensive and deterrent effects of having a military, which as I said, is the true portion of the propaganda you pointed out. (Good propaganda is always partly true.) The assertion that it doesn't exist and that the US military is only for war crimes is demonstrably false, and to prove it you need only (as I said to someone else) try to fly an airplane into US airspace without announcing yourself.

Is it primitive and juvenile? Absolutely! It comports with those particular traits of homo sapiens, an ape species. Any country big enough, or rich enough, or strategic enough for some other reason, is a target for invasion by the immature and non-cooperative. Furthermore if all the countries of the world were to join in one big cooperative union (which they already do in the realm of trade and commerce to some degree), I sadly don't think it would take long for someone to betray it, the way Trump (Russian asset) is betraying it now.

[–] justinhj 4 hours ago
Amazing insight. If only you could go back in time and tell those early tribes that cooperation is all you need we could have saved millenia of warfare.
[–] rdiddly 22 hours ago
It's propaganda, but also true. If the US or any other country had no military, ANY country could invade it. This is why they all tend to have militaries. Also it doesn't have to be Canada and Mexico, this is not a Risk board. The army men have big army boats, toot toot goes the horn on the big army boat! And they have big army planes too, zoom zoom go the army planes!
[–] tremon 14 hours ago
> If the US or any other country had no military, ANY country could invade it

Please explain what would happen if the US had no military and Andorra decided to invade?

[–] rdiddly 13 hours ago
Then Andorra would not meet any military resistance. If you're saying Andorra can't do anything because their military is small or non-existent, you're just proving the point that armies that exist are the ones that do things. But is Andorra defenseless? No, it's protected by all the military force of the EU, and, ironically, allies like the US.
[–] vrganj 21 hours ago
You think somebody is going to storm the beaches of Miami? C'mon, don't be ridiculous.

Nobody's gonna invade the US, what a preposterous idea. This is precisely the fear based propaganda I'm talking about.

[–] croon 17 hours ago
It's a preposterous idea with the size of the military forces of US currently. It would not be preposterous with 0 military force.

And to be clear, the US has abused the army for half a century for unjust causes, and I'm not defending that, but the concept of an army can be moral in the context of rivalling aggressive nations.

[–] regretsresin 14 hours ago
You are defending that. Because the US military does those awful things and has done forever.

There is no US military that's a defensive force. It is a war crimes machine.

You might think you are defending the idea of a peaceful defense force in the US but that's never existed and probably will never exist. So we all read your posts as if they were talking about the US military that exists.

[–] croon 14 hours ago
> You are defending that. Because the US military does those awful things and has done forever.

I both acknowledged and specified the difference.

> You might think you are defending the idea of a peaceful defense force in the US but that's never existed and probably will never exist.

Let me ask you this instead: What do you see as an alternative? Abolishing the entirety of all military force, or electing officials that do not abuse the existing or reduced scale military force for unjust causes? Or some third option?

[–] regretsresin 43 minutes ago
I'm saying the idea of a US military that exists in only a defensive capability is as realistic a possibility as no military and trusting the world to be chill.

They are both zero percent likely to happen. So why hypothesize and carry water for either idea? Like, "the US military should have peace beans that rainbow blast everyone into loving each other" is as cromulent a position as "if the US military were defense only, they'd be really good actually".

[–] rdiddly 12 hours ago
To assert that the US military has no defensive or deterrent effect whatsoever is at odds with reality, and to prove it to yourself you should try to fly an airplane into US airspace without announcing yourself, and see what happens.
[–] regretsresin 46 minutes ago
I never said that. I said a force that exists solely for defense doesn't exist.

The problem is that it is defense + war crimes. And there is no credible just defense option.

[–] xphos 8 hours ago
Should we have let the Nazi's win because the risk of the US killing 1 German civilians was greater than 0? I just find it very fake and mind broken to conclude the only evil empire is the US and that we need to beat them over the head endlessly without also calling out the other genocidal wars and empires that the US found itself existing among. The US army and its troops do have a deep shame for when they kill civilians. But don't act like the the US is some unique civilian killing machine. We infact are pretty good at not killing civilians as a ratio civilian per combatant than basically any army we've ever fought against or with. Certainly since WW2. Vietnam being particularly poor ratio but still far better than Viet Congs civilian to enemy combant ratio.

The matter of fact is that war is messy especially guerrilla warfare which is the only war that basically exists today and in that context what's an acceptable ratio? 0 means surrendering or being stepped on ask Ukraine but is it 1/5, 1/10? Ideally you have zero but to have total disregard of the service members life doesn't cause there to be less war or civilian death. Just more onesided brutal wars. These are hard questions but to paint the people that fight in wars in democratic societies as just souless sellouts is reductive and its the type of thinking that leads to mass murder by political groups. Souless people don't feel PTSD for what they did they are souless. PTSD is incredibly common in the services because we don't want empathless murder machines. Because when it comes to wining wars (wining a political objective ultimately) generally speaking civilian deaths don't help political goals which is what the elected officals ask the miltary to do. But most importantly the elected bodies are the ones asking for invasion.

I think these are hard questions that good solutions from the miltary side of things don't exist but most importantly I really think we as a society need to have more serious talks and rational conceptions of how war and conflict works. I can't recommend On War by Clauswitz enough, but acoup also has a great primer on it [1]

[1]https://acoup.blog/2026/02/13/collections-against-the-state-...

[–] regretsresin 43 minutes ago
That's a lot of words to have written on a tangent that wholly misses the thesis of my post.
[–] rdiddly 13 hours ago
Nobody invades because they know they'll meet an army. Same reason nobody invades France.
[–] vrganj 11 hours ago
Why does nobody invade Ireland?
[–] rdiddly 11 hours ago
If you invade Ireland or France, you are invading the EU, which has military capability, and has other allies like the US that also have military capability. Ireland is probably not big/rich/strategic enough to warrant taking on those costs. An invasion doesn't pass a narrow cost-benefit analysis. Throw in the diplomatic costs and it looks even worse.

Edit: I suppose I've stumbled on some kind of economic or game-theory angle here - Militaries exist to impose costs. They tip the balance of potential invaders' cost-benefit analyses. They also impose costs on their owners though. But I guess the idea is that the benefits (avoiding the costs of being invaded) are supposed to be greater than the costs of the defense force.