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points by tempestn 21 hours ago | 0 comments
There are likely valid points made here, but I think the conclusions are considerably too strongly held. For one thing, it's already clear that humans value the achievements of other humans outside of their pure economic value. We are impressed by the athletic, artistic, and intellectual abilities of other humans, even in fields where we are surpassed by machines or computers. Cars have been faster than humans for a century, but we still value Olympic sprinters. Computers have been superior at chess for decades, but we've all still heard of Magnus Carlsen. AI can now produce art that only the most talented humans could hope to replicate, but most of us aren't particularly interested, because there's no human mind behind it.

So assuming we did somehow manage to create a post-scarcity world, I think people would still want to learn and to improve their skills. And we would still value those skills. There would also still be work to do; work that either people do because they want to, and/or that we don't want computers doing for us. Much of it work that in today's world is undervalued.

In that utopian world, there would also be room for hobbies that could fill some of the human need to produce value that work currently does. Lots of people would love to be able to learn a craft or play a sport but don't currently have the time, money, or energy to do so.

I have plenty of concerns about the impacts of AI on the world, but IF we do somehow manage to get the good outcome where it truly is transformative and the benefits manage to be at least somewhat evenly distributed... well, I agree that we won't all just hang out, but I do think we'd be ok.

[–] abraxas 11 hours ago
The problem is that pursuits you mentioned are 'winner take all' examples. Who knows the name of the 29th best chess player in the world? Probably not very many. And that's still a very formidable bar to cross for most humans on earth.

So then, what does a laid off business analyst who built and edited spreadsheets most of their life are to do now? Pick up athletics in hopes of making it at the seniors' olympiad? Shake their ass on TikTok in hopes of becoming a 55 year old "influencer"?

[–] tempestn 10 hours ago
We celebrate the highest achievers most, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us don't feel satisfaction in similar pursuits. Many people gain satisfaction from improving their skill at chess or sports or other crafts. I play ultimate (frisbee) twice a week, and I can assure you it's not because someone might eventually pay me to do so. I do keep trying to improve though. I'm glad that my work schedule leaves me the time and energy to do that.
[–] dack 10 hours ago
i mean, i think a lot of people probably know the 29th best chess player in the world. they may not be world-renowned but i bet the experience of that person is that they get a lot of respect for being super good at chess. people still play chess at all levels to try to better themselves - i think most people who play chess don't do it because they think they'll eventually get to #1 in the world (same with basketball, or any sport).

a business analyst who edited spreadsheets already wasn't particularly high status - i'm not convinced their life would be worse if the job was removed from their lives and they could do whatever they wanted instead.

[–] el-berg 11 hours ago
What? We’re talking about a post-scarcity future and you think someone will be depressed because they don’t get to edit spreadsheets anymore? Poor guy only has infinite opportunity to pursue their limits (or not!) in the area of their choosing…

Do I play hockey with the end-all-be-all of becoming the next Gretzky? Or do I play because I enjoy it and want to push the limits of my mind and meat-suit?

[–] abraxas 11 hours ago
Maybe I'm cynical and have low status friends but when I look around only a minority pursue hobbies with any great dedication or consistency. People pursue careers to project status. When success no longer depends on merit it will devolve to proxies like nepotism, scheming, intrigue etc. We see how such utopias play out in regimes like Soviet Union or North Korea. Your only assets in such places are who you know and even that is very temporary as allegiances are reshuffled with some regularity and woe is you if you bet your fortunes on the wrong one.
[–] Apocryphon 11 hours ago
I've always wondered who the fans of minor league sports are, but I assume there's enough of them beyond the athletes' families and the major league scouts trying to farm the best players for their own teams. There's a niche for anything.
[–] Silamoth 8 hours ago
Nit: I’ve never heard of Magnus Carlsen, and I can’t imagine most people have, outside of those really into chess. The only chess person I’ve ever heard of is Gary Kasparov, and that’s only because it was a big deal when Deep Blue beat him.