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points by Someone 22 hours ago | 0 comments
> and others (north europe) want to stay on their solar time.

Closer to their solar time, for quite a few. As an extreme example, most of Spain lies West of the prime meridian (some parts of it even west of Great Britain, the island), but its time zone is an hour ahead of that of London.

[–] mantas 22 hours ago
But does solar time matters nowadays? In modern day-to-day life noon is not 12:00. People wake up at 5-6-7. And go to bed at 10-11-12. Even for early risers, middle of the day is well past 12:00. Having DST time makes solar mid-day closer to factual mid-day. I'd even argue to for +2 hours DST :D
[–] _ph_ 22 hours ago
Yes, solar time matters as your biological rhythm depends on it. The most important part of it being able to have daylight when you either rise in the morning or at least have the sun get up quickly after that. Another important point is, that there is plenty of experimental evidence that shows that starting schools before the pupils are really awake is not effective.

It is a misconception, that "noon" is the middle point of your awake time. That was never the case. Our day usage most of the time is asymmetric: start the day and especially the work with the sunlight, spend the evening time off after work after sun set.

Using the high point of the sun as the reference for the daytime is a very practical choice, as this is the one easily observable time point which doesn't move much over the course of the year (a few minutes, but that is symmetric).

[–] 1718627440 15 hours ago
If solar time does not matter, why do you care about at when number you get up, go to work, come back and get back to sleep? This would be even more ridiculous. People care about the time, because it's a proxy for sun.
[–] DocTomoe 22 hours ago
IT matters when you have an economic zone in which some have 9am being 'basically mid-day', while the others have '9am being 'oh, the sun just went up'.

This traditionally has been solved in two ways:

1. do the split and accept that you will have costs associated with different time zones and sleep/wake cycles in your population (e.g.: USA / Soviet Russia)

2. don't do the split, and have the cost by putting a time/light adjustment burden on the population (e.g.: PRC, European Union)

My preferred solution would be to abandon all time zones and use something like UTC, or yet better: .beat / Biel Mean Time [1], which does not come with a 'oh, 12 means midday' penalty.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time

[–] iggldiggl 20 hours ago
> My preferred solution would be to abandon all time zones and use something like UTC

Which means that

a) textual time references in stories would stop working unless also specifying a location, which would cause a lot of weirdness, especially in fiction

b) perhaps more importantly for day-to-day life, it causes a lot of weirdness around the change of the calendar day and the weekday. It's a rather useful property of the current system that the change of calendar day happens at a time when most people are asleep or otherwise not too fussed about the exact calendar date.

If you completely abolish time zones, that means that for everybody not lucky enough to live near wherever the meridian ends up (which would always be a significant fraction of the world's population, no matter where you'd place the meridian), the change of calendar date would happen during the middle of the waking hours, which causes a lot of weirdness (do public holidays now actually start and stop in the middle of the working day?) and makes date references vastly more cumbersome because a single calendar date can now refer to both solar n in the afternoon/evening and solar date n+1 in the morning.

So you'd have to start using rather awkward double dates for referring to a certain solar day ("the event will take place from the 22/23rd to the 24/25th", "see you on Thursday/Friday" [which isn't the same thing as "see you on Thursday or Friday" today, because that'd become "see you on Thursday/Friday or Friday/Saturday" under the new system properly]), or else develop some convention based on the local solar noon/midnight, which is basically reintroducing time zones through the back door.

[–] DocTomoe 15 hours ago
That only is a problem if you don't separate the 'time number' from the observed local time.

You could easily have a 'multiple calendar days during one solarday' situation. In fact, many countries already do this for their TV programming, in which a show might screen on "Thursday at 23:55 until 03:15".

For common things, you could just refer to as 'tomorrow morning'. If you need more precision, you can fall back to .beats. "School starts @740" Incidentally, that's exactly why I liked .beats: no false associations.