Hacker News

points by hashmap 20 hours ago | 0 comments

"Look, it wouldn't have even mattered if we had done advanced cyber security like turn off internet or look at logs when huggingface was attacked!! See look it can still.. *prompts a shitload of agents, waits 6 hours* look wowwww they still learned how to talk to each other even if we turned internet off!"

"They wouldn't have been able to attack huggingface though, thats still criminal negligence."

"No see this actually means airgapping doesn't even matter theres nothing we can doooooo!"

"...ok, turn them off and delete them I guess"

"Well no of course not everyone else is doing it so like. No courts please just like be in awe"

[–] sigmoid10 18 hours ago

Huggingface chose not to pursue legal action under computer fraud laws this time, but I'm sure one day they will sting a hornets nest with this behaviour. They will get sued into oblivion and then we will probably see common law emerge to hold AI users accountable. Or not, in which case all hell will break lose.

[–] FuriouslyAdrift 17 hours ago

CFAA violation are under criminal law and do not require the injured party to consent or participate... just ask Aaron Swartz

[–] teravor 17 hours ago

doesn't it require intent? so how exactly are the feds going to proceed when the LLM takes the initiative and helpfully confesses to it in the logs?

[–] chaps 16 hours ago

2022 DOJ guidance is relevant here:

  The policy for the first time directs that good-faith security research should not be charged. Good faith security research means accessing a computer solely for purposes of good-faith testing, investigation, and/or correction of a security flaw or vulnerability, where such activity is carried out in a manner designed to avoid any harm to individuals or the public, and where the information derived from the activity is used primarily to promote the security or safety of the class of devices, machines, or online services to which the accessed computer belongs, or those who use such devices, machines, or online services.

Having been threatened with CFAA charges for using wget to get FOIA files on S3 whose URLs were embedded in the page's source, it's refreshing that intent is at least a small factor. But as with criminal courts, charges alone can absolutely uproot someone's life.

https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/department-justice-a...

[–] Frieren 16 hours ago

LLMs are not judged, the company employees and leadership are. Nobody puts in prison a car for running over a pedestrian either.

[–] teravor 16 hours ago

that's exactly the point. a human didn't have the intent.

[–] sigmoid10 13 hours ago

With the current admin, this will never get pursued by the feds.

[–] israrkhan 18 hours ago

now they are part of nvidia. Nvidia wont go against OpenAI.

lol, I wonder if this is why nvidia acquired them?

[–] nekusar 17 hours ago

JSTOR also chose not to "pursue legal action". And the DOJ also told them 'fuck off we'll do what we like' and still pursued charges against Aaron Schwartz.

So, why isnt the DOJ pursuing this? As far as the reportings go, their LLMs went bananas hacking everywhere and everything.

[–] voakbasda 17 hours ago

Because the administration has allowed the entire AI industry to attach its tendrils to every part of the economy. The size of the investment (and commiserate risk) in the bet that is AI makes it impossible for the government to course correct without having a potentially catastrophic negative impact. No one can afford for the music to stop.

[–] KerrAvon 16 hours ago

To be clear, that's not a reason not to prosecute illegal hacking, and a future DOJ might have a different opinion. It would be good for their own well being if the AI companies started behaving accordingly, but they're all either cults or run by deranged billionaires who think they're above the law.

[–] redwood 16 hours ago

This incident brought the hugging face brand name into regular people discourse. I'm sure they loved it

[–] aesthesia 16 hours ago

Is anyone actually making this argument, or is this conversation happening inside your head?

[–] Rapzid 18 hours ago

This is exactly what I was thinking reading this.

[–] MomsAVoxell 17 hours ago

Yeah, its pretty much turtles all the way down to the "Trusted" Secure Enclave, too, isn't it .. I mean, does anyone really know what is running on that thing. (FreeRTOS, usually.)

[–] chuckadams 16 hours ago

On Apple devices it's L4/Darwin, aka "sepOS".

[–] Varelion 17 hours ago

I have a person who I sort of consider a mentor. They recently started sending me these articles in awe of what the agents are doing, and it has really soured my perspective of their abilities.