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points by Gualdrapo 18 hours ago | 0 comments
Some Kogi people have formal eastern education and go to universities, so they are not "isolated" as the strawman you're trying to put in there. I used to saw some of their people when I was at uni at Universidad Nacional de Colombia in Bogota.
[–] PaulHoule 17 hours ago
In the big picture I see very similar thinking from this guy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mart%C3%ADn_Prechtel

who I think is one of the most legit teachers of indigenous American traditions that there is [1] In particular his view of human incubation, training and development is represented there.

[1] ... and global folk religion for that matter; his description of rituals for the dead and the community impact of not doing them in The Smell of Rain on Dust: Grief and Praise are so similar to the situation in China described in A Time of Lost Gods where mediums in a small village are struggling with the aftermath of building a gas station on top of a mass grave

[–] Akuehne 18 hours ago
So the very thing that is supposed to give their opinions any weight, isn't really true.
[–] nstents 17 hours ago
That's quite the box they're put into; they're either completely ignorant of the outside world, or they're completely infected by it. Perhaps there's a middle ground.
[–] harimau777 17 hours ago
The thing that is supposed to give their opinions weight is the insights provided by their traditional knowledge and lived experiences. That doesn't require them to lack conventional (for lack of a better word) knowledge or to be isolated.
[–] ChickeNES 17 hours ago
And why does traditional knowledge have any weight whatsoever? Sounds like another form of religious claptrap to me.
[–] mindslight 17 hours ago
As an atheist, "religious claptrap" tends to contain more wisdom than average. Not inherently, but rather simply because reverence allows it to endure while more direct wisdom is readily thrown away for the sake of expedience. I think this is like one of the main themes of the piece itself.

All of the simplistic rejections in this thread, people looking to quickly assuage their cognitive dissonance rather than doing ten minutes of work holding conflicting thoughts in their head, make me think we are truly damned.

[–] harimau777 17 hours ago
Can you explain why you think that it shouldn't have weight?
[–] throwaway27448 17 hours ago
Ignorance of a topic does not imply its invalidity
[–] txrx0000 4 hours ago
Because religions don't survive unless they describe the world as we see it at least somewhat accurately, albeit at a high abstraction level. They're blurry but often not wrong.

I think the observations and criticisms in this article are pretty good, regardless of who wrote it. We desperately need to figure out what consciousness as we know it, is. It's possible that computers running the right program can possess human-like consciousness, but it would be a shame if we pass the torch to AIs without checking first and it turns out that they're unconscious matter. It would also be a shame if we attempt to enslave a new conscious species.

To echo another idea in the article, our incomplete understanding of consciousness/observation is probably why we don't have a unified description of physics. These are just rough intuitions, but I've written about these and related ideas in more detail in the past: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49736149 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49472348 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49473044 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50034305

The part near the end about harmonic coexistence can perhaps be modernized/translated to mean game theory with observer-dependent values/payoffs, which is something I've been thinking about recently, and we need to figure this out quite soon in order to prevent an inescapable race to the bottom. For the first time in history, one can expand one's own intelligence at will. The observable future may be short and boring if we don't find a new way to cooperate/coexist with one another in symbiosis. We may get stuck in a race to increase one's own compute capacity indefinitely to keep up with eachother in adversarial games, or perhaps be forced to merge with one another to form a giant organism, or perhaps spread out at near light speed, or just die. Many people who are leading the charge in AI and technology development are philosophically bankrupt to the point of denying their own consciousness, so it is accurate to say that we are an unconscious people. There are bright exceptions like Elon Musk, but even he does not understand what the question means when he asks "what is truth?" or "what is the meaning of life?", and it would serve him well to pause for a second to look inward and define what he means by each word of the query instead of assuming that expanding out into the universe will automatically yield an ultimate answer.

[–] tikimcfee 18 hours ago
What are you talking about? How is them attending university in any way unweighting this writing? Did you actually read it word for word? Slowly? Intentionally? Without a thought in your head afore that it was bunk, foolish, or simply not worth your time? I don't think you did. Or if you think you did, maybe you need to try to do it again, because saying this I don't think means you at least have actually digested the words, and could actually see a place on this planet where someone can have a deep and profound way of seeing and talking about the world in a way that is completely contrary to you and also be "classically educated".
[–] HelloMcFly 17 hours ago
The only thing that gives their opinions any weight is a lack of a formal western education? Do you have any idea how awful that sounds? Surely the point you are trying to make is more nuanced than that.