Hacker News

points by dev_l1x_be 16 hours ago | 0 comments

Producing batteries are not expensive and carbon intensive?

Genuine question - what is the thought process behind this comment?

Because we both know that gas generators also require a production step... arguably one that's quite a bit more complex than a battery, at ~$1,000,000/MW of installation costs. And that installation of that complex is going to be very carbon intensive (even the concrete foundation alone...).

And then on top the plant actively burns hydrocarbons for the entirety of its existence.

So fill me in here - what is the exact argument you are trying to make with this?

[–] bijowo1676 14 hours ago

their only argument is dont do anything, dont build anything, dont change anything, the Earth is too populated, so we need degrowth degrowth degrowth at all costs and fall of living standards across the board, so that we can achieve true Net Zero Carbon life.

thats the only argument these people make

[–] scottLobster 13 hours ago

And while they claim to be peaceful, the underlying argument is that human life is the problem to be solved, and if you believe in increasing living standards or having children you're the enemy.

Hard to see how that stops at halting powerplant construction. Theses people would accidentally cause a famine with their agricultural policies and look upon the starving children as "progress", even if they're socialized enough to never say it out loud. Scary shit.

[–] switchbak 10 hours ago

Truly dark.

The issue is there are SO MANY people who stop at the conclusion "batteries are expensive, dirty, use rare materials and are fueled by slave labour" - this level of understanding is ubiquitous in my experience. What I never hear is "compared to what" - like how does the full lifecycle analysis of those batteries IN CONTEXT compare to the status quo?

Or the folks that extend that argument to "EVs are bad". Without even considering the energy mix that they rely on. If you're not even interested in doing a single ounce of research and thinking, you're not making a point - you're regurgitating corporate propaganda.

[–] Smoosh 7 hours ago

I have to suspect that there are so many because there has been a propaganda campaign against progress, I suspect as a branch of the fossil fuel PR to say that climate change is not real, what we are doing now is fine and we shouldn’t change anything.

[–] ethagnawl 12 hours ago

> having children you're the enemy.

With these people, this greatly depends on _who_ is having the children.

[–] JMKH42 15 hours ago

People who make these comments are either disingenuous people, or people who aren't thinking carefully repeating the arguments of their tribe.

[–] WarmWash 16 hours ago

The good 'ole "Lets start with the premise that all energy in our calculation comes from coal transported by truck, and then work out how "green" these technologies are"

[–] adrianN 16 hours ago

Over the lifetime of the battery it’s not that bad and gets better as the carbon intensity of the grid that runs the factories improves.

[–] stefs 16 hours ago

that's a one time cost over many years that's quickly amortized. lets assume an upfront cost of ~100kg CO2 per kWh of battery storage and 250g of CO2 per kWh generated by a gas turbine. this means the carbon ROI is there after 400 kWh.

[–] dralley 16 hours ago

Compared to gas generators? Probably. And unlike gas there's no ongoing cost.

[–] pixl97 14 hours ago

That type of person never thinks about the crazy amount of energy it takes to get fuel out of the ground. I guess they think gas falls out of the sky like rain and the only cost is in collecting it.

[–] dralley 12 hours ago

Or the amount of energy required to produce a large gas turbine. Which, between the refining and advanced metallurgy and the casting and machining of such a large piece of metal, is a lot.

[–] sanderjd 14 hours ago

Not particularly, relative to producing anything, including turbines and the fuel to run them. (And then you have to burn that fuel...)

[–] thatfrenchguy 13 hours ago

you have to look at CO2/kwh produced over the lifetime, that's the useful metric here

[–] speed_spread 16 hours ago

The extraction cost of minerals is only paid once. And a few big batteries will be much easier to recycle than a billion small ones in consumer electronics.