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points by HEmanZ 13 hours ago | 0 comments
I appreciate you called out the more fundamental disagreement here: "... the progressive / conservative disagreement between how a system is designed vs. the impacts of a system determines its fairness and justness."

I think a lot of people miss this or pretend that the conservative position is just old-school racism (although it definitely is sometimes). But there are really hard philosophical, ethical, and political questions at the base of a lot our political problems. I think it helps keep people from arguing past each other if they can find out where the really "hard" part of their political disagreement actually is.

[–] datsci_est_2015 13 hours ago
It’s called disparate impact more specifically, but that term is unfortunately increasingly politicized as it’s inconvenient.
[–] jfengel 13 hours ago
That's not "unfortunate". It was a deliberate choice. Any term used to describe the problem is treated as if it meant something bad, and then we're told we can't talk about it because it's "politicized". As if the entire point of the political process was about something other than resolving disagreements.
[–] Terr_ 11 hours ago
I highly recommend the video series "The Alt-Right Playbook" (in the sense of an expose, not a how-to) which has an episode dedicated to this, titled "Always a Bigger Fish". [0], which goes into how people might be talking "past" one-another.

______

> Your conservative friend is often baffled as to what you're even trying to say when you point out there's not enough high-paying jobs or affordable health plans for everyone.

> There's not supposed to be. The system requires an underclass. Someone's gotta clean the toilets.

> Capitalism, then, is a proving ground: it's how you demonstrate where in the hierarchy you deserve to be. Do you have more than you need, or less?

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agzNANfNlTs&list=PLJA_jUddXv...

[–] watwut 9 hours ago
Conservative position is the old school racism, just with a dishonest excuse on top of it.

Those systems are not having disparate impats randomly. They were deaigned that way on purpose.

[–] HEmanZ 9 hours ago
Your framing is fundamentally illiberal. Refraining from engaging using “well deep in your heart” excuses means you can self-righteously ignore any position you disagree with and never have to face real argument. And it is wonderfully non-falsifiable, so you can always use it!
[–] Arainach 9 hours ago
This isn't a "deep in your heart" excuse. It's a documented conservative strategy for decades.

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/exclusive-lee-atwa...

https://adams.house.gov/media-center/in-the-news/supreme-cou...

[–] watwut 7 hours ago
It is not "illiberal'. It is descriptive and objective. As opposed to pretending I am naive dumbo.

I did not engaged in "well deep down". I said "the motivation is clearly that. Even openly stated again and again and again whenever in front of symphatetic audience"

[–] wondering5du 4 hours ago
You come off as extremely naive dumbo right now. You are openly stating your hatred towards people who have different opinions and think you have some moral high ground here.
[–] slater 2 hours ago
Looks more like they're stating hatred towards people that espouse hateful opinions.