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points by yummypaint 12 hours ago | 0 comments

The nature of that ID is essential. If it used to authenticate someone for voting, which is a RIGHT, then every citizen must have a RIGHT to possess that ID. Not only that, but obtaining the ID must not pose any encumbrance beyond the effort to vote.

Americans manifestly do not have a right to possess a driver's license, it's a privilege. The process for obtaining one requires expenditure of time, energy, and money.

The only form of government "ID" that could presently meet the bar is social security cards, as every citizen has one by right. That is obviously a bad idea. There is no "move fast and break things" when it comes to democratic process. If something as important as this cannot be done right, then it should not be done. The right to vote is sacred and cannot be infringed upon, period.

[–] TFNA 10 hours ago

Drivers licenses haven't been the only form of state ID across the US for well over a generation now, and as national-level ID usable in any state there is the passport (and at less cost there was the passport card).

The physical Social Security card was never meant to be used as ID (the number on it is, de facto, another story).

Obtaining ID cards in other developed countries requires the same payment of application fees and visits to offices, so those steps being required in the US, too, aren't any refutation of the OP's comment.

[–] 0xDEAFBEAD 11 hours ago

>Americans manifestly do not have a right to possess a driver's license, it's a privilege. The process for obtaining one requires expenditure of time, energy, and money.

Just get a state ID or passport then.

[–] mos_basik 10 hours ago

28 USD for a non-driver ID in my state of residence (1) (exceptions: free if you are homeless or are a blind veteran)

65 USD for a passport card (2) (the cheapest passport option).

Both require attending in-person appointments.

For contrast:

Voting is compulsory in Australia. Citizens may register to vote entirely online, and may prove their identity using a Medicare card or citizenship certificate (or driver's license or passport, ofc) (3). (Aside: this page of FAQs explicitly calls out that these two means of proving ID have been added as a response to increasing feedback from young people, disabled people, and people living in remote areas about having less access to driver's license or passport.)

Obtaining an Australian Medicare card is free, and citizens may prove their identity using a birth certificate (no need for it to be certified) and submitting their application + supporting documents by email (or by mail, but that costs postage) (4).

Free, and no in-person appointment.

1. https://portal.ct.gov/dmv/licenses-permits-ids/get-non-drive...

2. https://travel.state.gov/en/passports/apply/adults.html#acco...

3. https://www.aec.gov.au/faqs/enrolment.htm

4. https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/enrolling-medicare-if-y...

[–] TFNA 9 hours ago

Australia is somewhat unusual here among developed democracies, as a simple web search will show. Elsewhere obtaining an ID typically requires at least some payment and time spent visiting an office.

[–] pseudalopex 8 hours ago

Were other developed democracies incapable to follow Australia?

[–] TFNA 7 hours ago

I think that's immaterial to the present thread. Such countries exist and are regarded as developed democracies by the usual respected rankings, so to argue that "well, they aren't really democracies then" would not be a very productive enterprise.

[–] Arodex 10 hours ago

Are these REAL ID? Are they free? How long does one has to drive to find an office who can deliver those? How much paperwork is needed? How many times does one has to get back in person to that ID office?

Stop. We can all see you argue in bad faith. You are at best incurious and naive, and at worst...

[–] monkeywork 5 hours ago

Do you pay taxes? Have you ever applied for a loan/bank account/rent/mortgage/etc? Have you ever enrolled a child in school? Have you ever applied for a job? Have you ever had to fill out paperwork after the loss of a loved one? etc etc etc etc

These are all tasks that a functional adult in the world needs to do regardless of background / race / creed / etc.

It's not bad faith to say hey as a functional adult you should go get a fucking ID.

What is the % of people that honestly do not have one? Pass a law and give people 4 years to go get one.

Like why must you insist on treating people like hopeless children?

[–] 0xDEAFBEAD 10 hours ago

I think it is bad faith to implicitly assume a driver's license is required when there are easier options.

I have a state ID, a REAL ID. It was not particularly difficult to get. I'm a bit skeptical of the claim that there are major cross-national differences in difficulty here.

[–] Arodex 7 hours ago

>It was not particularly difficult to get.

Thank you for reminding us that you aren't working three jobs in the same day to make ends meet, have disposable income and free time to collect the documents and get to the office twice,and live in a district where said office isn't half a day of driving (with the current gas prices) away.

And of course, you are fine with people with less affodances than you not being able to vote. Such moral character on top of your comfortable life.

[–] monkeywork 5 hours ago

You make it sound like this would pass into law and within 48 hours everyone would need to go get an ID.

You'd pass this into law and then have it take effect 2-4 years out, and if you can't go and secure yourself an ID after 2-4 years of notice you aren't a functional adult.

[–] 0xDEAFBEAD 6 hours ago

>Thank you for reminding us that you aren't working three jobs in the same day to make ends meet, have disposable income and free time to collect the documents and get to the office twice,and live in a district where said office isn't half a day of driving (with the current gas prices) away.

Sure, I mean, going to the grocery store is also very oppressive. You need money, time, transport, etc.

>And of course, you are fine with people with less affodances than you not being able to vote. Such moral character on top of your comfortable life.

I have no issue if people want to implement measures to make it easier to get ID. But given the state of US democracy, election security currently seems important enough to me that voter ID laws seem reasonable. That's how policy works--there are tradeoffs. Want me to pearl-clutch about your moral character in allowing the country to descend into fascism through a contested election?

[–] TFNA 10 hours ago

ID cards in other developed and democratic countries typically require payment of application fees (sometimes modest fees, sometimes substantial fees) and visits to offices, too.

[–] monkeywork 5 hours ago

Does the American left feel the same way about firearms? I've heard for years that there should be registration and licensing on them (which I actually agree with).