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points by cowlevel 4 days ago | 0 comments

The left: we need free healthcare and less market capture.

The right: we need to torture immigrants and more market capture.

The center: I can't decide between these two equally appealing, equally moral options.

Or,

The left: let’s do empty gestures and those who are supposed to help just commit fraud instead. Let’s support genocide but be “sad” about it online.

The right: let’s make sure that people aren’t hindered in leading the lives that they want and everyone benefits from this.

The center: the left claims to do nice things and the right doesn’t seem friendly.

[–] cowlevel 2 days ago

Which part of exiling people and torturing other people is "making sure they aren't hindered in leading the lives that they want"

Or do those ones not count as people?

[–] verdverm 4 days ago

This is a naive perspective. Both extremes are losing people to independents for a reason. What we want is less of this and more of civil discourse. Most people are not tuned into the details, are focusing on their family, and vote based on how their wallet feels and the things they hear 2-3 weeks before the election.

Perhaps if the far left and hard right didn't dominate primaries (many reasons for this), we could have less extreme candidates in November. But it is what it is until we start having civil conversations with our friends, family, neighbors, and community. We could be having conversations about how we improve our democracy.

You comment lends to being part of the problem. Please stop demeaning everyone with blanket statements.

As an independent volunteering with Indivisible, my main effort has been to moderate the members on the far left.

[–] cycomanic 4 days ago

Just to clarify I'm not american and I don't support either us main party, but your comment that the hard left and hard right are dominating the primaries sums it up pretty clearly. From an outside perspective only absolute miniscule fraction of politicians in the US are hard left. Most of US politics would be anywhere between moderate conservative to extreme right in the rest of the world.

[–] aliasxneo 4 days ago

This person seem content with summarizing the entire choice of a political party into a single point of torturing immigrants. It's no wonder we're in the state we are.

[–] cowlevel 4 days ago

I have heard of precisely three people in American politics who are left at all, much less far left. Those are AOC, Bernie Sanders, and Zohran Mamdani. The left is certainly not dominating any primaries.

[–] verdverm 4 days ago

They are democratic socialists, the far left is a much bigger camp.

The rule of thumb I use is, do they say things like "win at all costs" or talk about how they want to dominate others, forcing their views on all Americans.

[–] cycomanic 4 days ago

So where are the quotes of hard left politicians (and not some fringe politician) saying they want to dominate everything. Also how is that even part of a left/right definition. In fact in my experience the ones who most talk about eliminating others in politics are the self declared moderates, who at every opportunity talk about how we need to eliminate the extremes from politics.

[–] verdverm 3 days ago

the culture war between the groups has ample examplar

lots of top down rules for everyone, rather than the "trickle up" governance experiments we need to runin order to (1) figure out what works in practice (2) convince others they should try it to

[–] cycomanic 3 days ago

So the answer is no quotes.

[–] alex-hall 4 days ago

guy whose blog is capstoned with "vive la résistance" bragging about spending his free time moderating the left

[–] verdverm 4 days ago

man, the wannabe trolls are out today

quality first comment buddy, leave that stuff on Musk and Zuck Social please

[–] cowlevel 4 days ago

By that metric Donald Trump is far left, so I don't think it's a good metric.

[–] verdverm 3 days ago

it's a metric for the extremes, both far left and hard right

the rest of us want debates and compromise

[–] cowlevel 2 days ago

Compromise like

Person A: let's torture immigrants

Person B: let's not

Person C: whoa whoa hold on. Isn't there space in the middle that will please everyone? Let's only torture half the immigrants

There's a reason "enlightened centrist" is such a maligned stereotype. As stupid as person A is in the mock exchange above, person C is clearly even stupider.

[–] Refreeze5224 4 days ago

> until we start having civil conversations with our friends, family, neighbors, and community. We could be having conversations about how we improve our democracy.

You don't have much idea what some of our family, friends, and neighbors are like do you? I have nothing to say to fascists, Nazis, and anyone who advocates for the things MAGA advocates for. Spare us the "oh we should just talk it out" BS. The time for discourse ended when people started advocating for racist fascism. And if you're unable to spot the racist fascism, then you likely support it.

[–] verdverm 4 days ago

How do you expect them move away from those awful mindsets if we don't talk to them?

[–] Refreeze5224 3 days ago

There is firm historical precedent on how to talk to Nazis.

[–] verdverm 3 days ago

Blue MAGA (what you sound like) is no better than Trump's MAGA

Please leave your political extremism at home when coming to HN. Musk Social is the place for that, if you need to let off the steam and yell into the void

[–] Refreeze5224 3 days ago

No idea what blue MAGA is. But I know a fascist apologist when I hear one. And that fascism is the political extremism here, so you might consider leaving it behind.

[–] verdverm 3 days ago

You know what Blue MAGA is, they are people who are too online, too caught up in their echo chamber, and say hyperbolic things like you have, putting anyone who doesn't agree with them into their evil list, unable to understand nuance or the center / independents

There is a reason both extremes are losing support, it's people who say things like you have here. The rest of us are tired of you and you undermine the causes you care about. Touch some grass, talk to people in real life.

I'll have you know, I'm estranged from my parents and a best friend over these things. You do not need to talk to them all, but we do need to talk with them collectively if we are to move minds. I let my sister work on my parents, she has always had a much closer relationship.