I'm not going to predict whether Anthropic succeeds or fails, just that it's very misleading to claim that Anthropic needs to grow to $500b in revenue without making it clear that it's $500B in revenue per decade rather than $500B in revenue per year which is what most people reading such a number would assume.
[–] dyslexit 3 days ago
[–] smallmancontrov 3 days ago
[–] dyslexit 3 days ago
SpaceX was the only one mentioned as cancelable. These are listed under "Infrastructure Service Arrangements" on page 170.
[–] throwaway2037 3 days ago
[–] Silhouette 3 days ago
If progress with frontier models doesn't continue at the same pace then the investments and funny money deals might start to look very fragile.
If progress does continue then that progress might be towards smaller models more than quantum steps up in quality or capability that would increase the risk of the scenario above.
All of this is set against a backdrop of public hostility and political problems that I can only imagine increasing in the near term as well.
This feels like an unusually high stakes game of poker. I don't think I'd want to bet on Big AI right now if I had a few billion lying around. Then again - maybe that's why I don't have a few billion lying around!
[–] BlobberSnobber 3 days ago
[–] Silhouette 2 days ago
I saw an interesting observation the other day that Jensen Huang has played this game the best because his company is the one actually selling real products and making real money in return. If all the AI giants are buying up huge amounts of hardware speculatively because they assume they will need those data centres in the future and then the bottom falls out of the market then it's the AI companies left holding the baby. And if we do get to a point where local models are competitive then the OpenAIs and Anthropics of the industry might face real difficulties but it would just be a different market for Nvidia to also be selling real hardware and still in exchange for real money.
[–] mike_hearn 3 days ago
[–] vlovich123 2 days ago
[–] edmundsauto 1 day ago
For intelligence, I bet if inference got 90% more efficient they would just increase the “thinking” by 90%.
[–] acchow 2 days ago
[–] pierreb-aiva 2 days ago
And thats just the inference side of things. For training, the big players like Anthropic would still be able to benefit from cheaper compute, by generating more RL rollouts, running more RL environments, and thus still providing frontier intelligence that would justify the markup.
Many customers cancelling would only be a risk if the compute expenditure was more decentralized. But its not
[–] solyin 3 days ago
[–] chrisweekly 3 days ago
Is that really a viable path? (Honest question)
[–] burnerRhodov3 3 days ago
[–] vel0city 3 days ago
[–] burnerRhodov3 2 days ago
According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA), in 2024:
- *Texas natural gas production:* 27.5 billion cubic feet per day. - *Texas natural gas consumption:* 14.6 billion cubic feet per day.
So Texas produces nearly twice as much natural gas as it consumes domestically.
Natural gas contains approximately 1,025 BTU per cubic foot. Assuming 50% efficiency in a natural gas power plant, and 1 kWh equals 3,412 BTU.
27.5 − 14.6 = *12.9 billion cubic feet per day.*
12.9 billion × 1,025 BTU × 50% efficiency ÷ 3,412 BTU/kWh ÷ 24 hours = *approximately 80.7 GW of continuous electrical generation.*
That's the equivalent of more than EIGHT 10-GW AI computing campuses operating around the clock.
Lastly, a significant amount of natural gas is produced alongside crude oil. When producers can't economically capture or transport that gas, some of it is burned off through a process called flaring. Those flames you sometimes see at oil and gas facilities are an example, although refinery flares also serve important safety functions.
Seems like you just like to say snarky things about Elon, but can't be asked to do any actual math.
[–] me-vs-cat 3 days ago
[–] jordanb 2 days ago
Then Elon goes to Memphis, buys a warehouse and fires up 30 jet turbines in the parking lot, and you start getting reports about the incessant noise and being able to smell it from 5 miles away.
It seems like there's a fundamental problem with realizing other people have agency and if you fuck them hard enough they will fight back.
[–] wbl 3 days ago
[–] burnerRhodov3 3 days ago
[–] ethagknight 3 days ago
[–] lumost 3 days ago
[–] runako 3 days ago
Those vendors would very much like to retain as much of that business as possible. If the space goes sideways, I would very much expect some kind of renegotiation/work out.
[–] Mistletoe 3 days ago
[–] nostrademons 3 days ago
If Anthropic's revenue story doesn't materialize and the AI bubble bursts, these companies are in a world of hurt. It's probably not fatal for Google or Amazon but would be a major drag on the stock price (perhaps why Google has dropped from 400 to 315 over the last couple months as the AI story soured), and it could be company-ending for Broadcom or SpaceX if they end up building out infrastructure to service these commitments.
I remember before I left Google, one of the TGIF questions (which are now AI syntheses of many peoples' individual opinions) was "What happens if AI is a bubble and it bursts?" His response was "If that happens, the whole industry is in trouble." I see now what he meant.
[–] brightball 3 days ago
Between SpaceX, Starlink, Tesla, Neuralink, X, Grok, Grok Bot & Cursor there's not a demand shortage.
Grok Bot's the fastest growing product in the history of the company and the moment you use it, it's clear why. Took me about 1-2 days to realize I'd have a very hard time going back to not having it available.
[–] blonder 2 days ago
[–] brightball 2 days ago
[–] Uke 3 days ago
[–] brightball 2 days ago
They can access anything you can, whether there's an MCP/CLI/API or not. I create speciality bots for each 3rd party tool that I use at this point. The bots can talk to each other, have group chats. You can give them access to the machines that you're running the software on and give specific bots permission to do things on certain machine (like an Obsidian bot that writes logs of daily bot activity on a specific machine with a Dropbox folder shared). I've got a Security Scan bot that downloads anything that a bot wants to download to it's personal machine at SpaceX and runs a slew of security scanners before the other bots can work with it.
I got locked out of one machine while I was travelling and I asked Grok Bot on another machine if it could get into that one over SSH, so it sent me a temporary authorization link via Tailscale, connected to the machine and restarted the stuck process for me.
The usability is off the charts. It's really like having a team of people working for you. I've run a conference for the last few years and was getting completely overloaded. Now I have 14 bots specialized just for the conference helping me do it better than ever and participating in architectural discussions to build a system that help long term.
If you find yourself trying to juggle a lot in your life and work, it's a gift.
[–] majky538 3 days ago
It's not impossible integrate AI to projects/products directly.
[–] w2sdss 3 days ago
[–] monegator 3 days ago
[–] demibabs 3 days ago
[–] nostrademons 3 days ago
If the AI companies go tits-up, that introduces counterparty risk, the revenue doesn't materialize as cash, and suddenly their earnings take a nose-dive. If they've staffed up significantly to design and sell these AI accelerators and suddenly there's no market, they could be in a lot of hurt.
[–] foobiekr 3 days ago
BRCM and Marvell are both the actual designers of many of the “we designed our own ai chip” chips that so many companies have been announcing.
Broadcom is also a major supplier of the networking chips that the hyperscalers use. Clusters are moving away from infiniband and nobody is particularly impressed by Spectrum.
[–] herodoturtle 3 days ago
[–] tancop 3 days ago
[–] AlphaSite 3 days ago
[–] mirekrusin 3 days ago
- 2026: $97.08B
- 2027: $97.08B
- 2028: $97.08B
- 2029: $97.08B
- 2030: $66.96B
- 2031: $66.96B
- 2032: $40.09B
- 2033: $40.09B
- 2034: $14.59B
- 2035: $10.00B
- 2036: $10.00B
Total: $637.0B
Considering everything that is cancellable, ie. hard commitment only, it's:
- 2026: $56.79B
- 2027: $56.79B
- 2028: $56.79B
- 2029: $56.79B
- 2030: $56.79B
- 2031: $56.79B
- 2032: $29.93B
- 2033: $29.93B
- 2034: $10.00B
- 2035: $10.00B
- 2036: $10.00B
Total: $431B
If they go bankrupt, there are some more cancellations available, also from the other side – if some providers don't deliver, it can be lower as well.
[–] dyslexit 3 days ago
I also left out AMD at $20B for 2027, so that would need to jump up.
Finally, the above is only counting the commitments they've already made. It's not very likely they'll only spend $10B in 2035.
[–] mirekrusin 3 days ago
AMD is missing, true but commitment schedule isn't known. Also missing estimated additional TPU purchase for 28-31, ~$125B-$150B.
- 2026: $97.08B = Broadcom $26.87B + SpaceX $30.13B + Google $14.31B + Amazon $10B + Microsoft $5.61B + Nscale $5.58B + Lambda $4.59B
- 2027: $97.08B + AMD (TBD) = Broadcom $26.87B + SpaceX $30.13B + Google $14.31B + Amazon $10B + Microsoft $5.61B + Nscale $5.58B + Lambda $4.59B + AMD (TBD)
- 2028: $128.33–134.58B + AMD (TBD) = Broadcom $26.87B + SpaceX $30.13B + Google $14.31B + Amazon $10B + Microsoft $5.61B + Nscale $5.58B + Lambda $4.59B + additional TPUs $31.25–37.50B + AMD (TBD)
- 2029: $128.33–134.58B + AMD (TBD) = Broadcom $26.87B + SpaceX $30.13B + Google $14.31B + Amazon $10B + Microsoft $5.61B + Nscale $5.58B + Lambda $4.59B + additional TPUs $31.25–37.50B + AMD (TBD)
- 2030: $98.21–104.46B + AMD (TBD) = Broadcom $26.87B + Google $14.31B + Amazon $10B + Microsoft $5.61B + Nscale $5.58B + Lambda $4.59B + additional TPUs $31.25–37.50B + AMD (TBD)
- 2031: $98.21–104.46B + AMD (TBD) = Broadcom $26.87B + Google $14.31B + Amazon $10B + Microsoft $5.61B + Nscale $5.58B + Lambda $4.59B + additional TPUs $31.25–37.50B + AMD (TBD)
- 2032: $40.09B = Google $14.31B + Amazon $10B + Microsoft $5.61B + Nscale $5.58B + Lambda $4.59B
- 2033: $40.09B = Google $14.31B + Amazon $10B + Microsoft $5.61B + Nscale $5.58B + Lambda $4.59B
- 2034: $14.59B = Amazon $10B + Lambda $4.59B
- 2035: $10.00B = Amazon $10B
- 2036: $10.00B = Amazon $10B
Combined total: $782–807B+, including estimated additional TPU purchases and conditional AMD spending.
[–] Espressosaurus 3 days ago
[–] egeozcan 3 days ago
Got the numbers on a spreadsheet. Of course this is a super simplistic version assuming equal yearly commitments.
[–] cavisne 3 days ago
[–] youngtaff 3 days ago
> Its largest commitment is with Broadcom, which co-develops the TPU AI processors with Google and leases them to Anthropic in deals worth $161bn over five years. From 2028, Anthropic expects to spend up to $150bn more on TPUs.
https://www.ft.com/content/a6c43402-719e-4295-ae5f-541edb0ae...
[–] teacpde 3 days ago
[–] trjordan 3 days ago
This is just the compute, which primarily covers training + inference. They still have to run the rest of the business. If you think AI should look like SaaS and spend 10% of their revenue on compute, that's $1T in revenue. If you think it's a hardware business, that's 30% margins and perhaps $200b in revenue. I went with something in the middle at $500b.
They won't disappear as a company at $200b in revenue, but I don't think that's their aspiration. These commitments imply to me that they're confident they can do much better.
[–] conradkay 3 days ago
I'd think it's more sound to just look at what percent of their current spend is on compute? Seems to be 50-60%
[–] stymaar 3 days ago
Idk where you got this figure from, but the actual figure are very different from that:
It's 120B over four years for SpaceX alone and 120B for Broadcom over 6 years. These two players, representing less than half of the total commitment, already give you an annual commitment above 50B.
[–] chairmansteve 3 days ago
But if you buy them today at a $1 trillion valuation, and they only make $40 billion in annual profit, your investment will go nowhere. They need to be growing profits at 20% per annum to justify a PE OF 25.
And then you have the competition problem. The cheap open weight models are good enough for many (most?) tasks.
And then you have the problem that LLMs may not be that useful outside of programming, customer support and law (and doing homework).
[–] majky538 2 days ago
Last week I build my new project on free plan medium Luna OpenAI, totally fine.
A lot of new SaaS companies is just integrating AI into their products. Would be nice to follow this if they increase prices / how they are doing.
Not sure how big part of customers are random human coders / big tech / small-medium SaaS companies...
From S-1, some use-cases in many companies doesn't look convincingly.
[–] abletonlive 3 days ago
[–] redanddead 3 days ago
[–] kmac_ 3 days ago
[–] kinnth 3 days ago
what you're buying into here is a company that is already large on the idea of growth over the next 10 years.
Modern IPO's just reek of investors cashing out
[–] JumpCrisscross 3 days ago
Google closed its first trading day "worth more than $25 billion" [1] with $1.5bn revenues, up 234% from 2002's $440mm [2]. That's a 16x revenue multiple, 0.07 growth adjusted [3].
On a similar revenue multiple, Anthropic's $16.3bn half-year earnings are worth $543 billion. Adjust for Anthropic's 1,400% YoY growth and you're well over $3 trillion.
Obviously, it's a lot harder to grow at a thousand percent from a $16bn baseline versus a few billion. But purely on a multiple basis, Anthropic is in a similar ballpark as Google.
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/19/technology/shares-of-goog...
[2] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000119312504...
[–] extraextra 3 days ago
Google was profitable, free cash flow positive and had no debts basically
Anthropic is burning money by the millisecond, no profits, free cash flow negative and has lots of debts & commitments
[–] ygghutttff 3 days ago
Comparables are not by peer group or sector.
It’s cash flows, growth and risk bud. If you want to do peer group - go ahead - just don’t forget to control for differences..
Price to sales multiples are internally inconsistent by definition.
[–] JumpCrisscross 3 days ago
[–] runako 3 days ago
[–] extraextra 3 days ago
In reality, a valuation based on revenue (sales) is bonkers to begin with, but even worse when you consider that Anthropic has so much debt that it doesn't have positive equity value, it's in a deficit ("When liabilities attached to an asset exceed its value, the difference is called a deficit and the asset is informally said to be "underwater" or "upside-down""). At least SpaceX has more assets than liabilities.
[–] runako 3 days ago
> SpaceX has more assets than liabilities.
is definitely a choice thing to write on the day SpaceX announced a $40B debt deal to purchase compute to run other companies' models. Based on available information, this will put SpaceX into a place where it has more liabilities than assets.
[–] xvector 3 days ago
[–] lotsofpulp 3 days ago
99.9999% of the time someone sells something, the goal is to obtain cash. Throughout all of human history.
[–] somenameforme 2 days ago
Like is there going to be anybody, whatsoever, who's genuinely aiming to go long on Anthropic? It just feels like this massive collusion that 'everybody' is in on where we all know it's going to crater but the whole game is to pump it as much as possible and just try not to be the last guy holding the bag.
Obviously LLMs are going to revolutionize the world, and they arguably already have, but there are open weight models available for free with frontier level performance, and the price to run these models keeps plummeting which, in turn, is already driving token costs down. Like many things now a days, this is all highly entertaining, yet absolutely insane.
[–] foobiekr 3 days ago
[–] Quothling 3 days ago
Obviously it's not like having Claude Code or similar, but those would be very hard to run legally and safely in EU regulated industries like us in energy production. You could run Codex but it would require your IT department to have yet another place to manage security and software integrations. Which is a fairly big issue when you have around 1 IT staff member per 300 employees, and an organisation which will buy five different sharepoint solutions for the same problem.
Microsoft sells something that seamlessly integrates into everything else you buy from them. It's easy to manage credit spending and when I say that I don't mean that it's easy to set it up. It's easy to track and budget so the right departments pay for it. It can read your emails, your onedrive, your loop, your sharepoint, your powerbi/fabric and anything else you have access to. Sure it's annoying to be confronted with a point you've made 7 months ago (like how you think Copilot is utter trash) and since changed opinions on it's frightingly good at finding relevant stuff, even in some obscoure legal document on your intranet.
I assume that Anthropic and OpenAI makes money of this somehow, but for the most parts our users wouldn't care if it was the GPT and Claude models or Mistral or Deepseek. Which is why I asked if they had really gotten it right.
[–] gigatexal 3 days ago
A very large part of that revenue is paying for inference. There’s not enough leftover for the committed outlays. So it has to come from smucks I mean investors.
- 161.2B w/ Broadcom: 2026-2031
- 120.5B w/ SpaceX: 2026-2029
- 114.5B w/ Google: 2026-2033
- 110.0B w/ Amazon: 2026-2036
- 44.9B w/ Microsoft: 2026-2033
- 44.6B w/ Nscale: 2026-2033
- 41.3B w/ Lambda: 2026-2034
which is around $63.7 billion / year if spread over 10 years, but with most of it due earlier than that.