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points by micw 3 days ago | 0 comments

It makes no sense to make the devices so thin and then having a fat camera. This requires a cover to equalize the size with the camera for haptic reasons. Better use this space for other stuff like larger batteries and make the device the same thickness everywhere.

[–] rendaw 3 days ago

The carousel 2nd image appears to have erased the camera to make it fit the marketing narrative? That's pretty bold.

[–] daemonologist 3 days ago

It's the top image on the product page: https://www.apple.com/ipad-mini/

I would assume, however, that they didn't "fake" it - that they instead chose a filming position and lens such that camera was obscured behind the edge of the device (the edge facing the viewer is the far side from the camera). Bit of trickery for sure though.

[–] lynndotpy 3 days ago

For anyone curious, a diagram with the camera can be found here: https://www.apple.com/v/ipad-mini/a/images/specs/buttons_con...

from this page: https://www.apple.com/ipad-mini/specs/

[–] jotaen 3 days ago

> I would assume, however, that they didn't "fake" it - that they instead chose a filming position and lens such that camera was obscured behind the edge of the device

I’d suspect the same. From that angle, the camera bump is on the opposite edge; when I hold my iPad Air in the same position, the camera bump is also just about hidden.

That being said, I’d also suspect that Apple chose that angle deliberately.

[–] andai 3 days ago

Is that a real video or cgi? The motion reminds me of motion tweening.

[–] ch_sm 3 days ago

Historically, Apple used real photos and video for marketing material, only lit and polished to perfection to create a sort of hyper-real effect. Nowadays, who knows.

[–] pseufaux 3 days ago

Definitely an odd choice. Especially when two images later has it again

[–] HumblyTossed 3 days ago

The usual narrative is that Apple are meticulous, therefore it is only proper that we assume they did this on purpose.

[–] b473a 3 days ago

I wonder if at this point a camera bump is too closely associated with quality.

A minimal camera bump means they've advanced the technology to make it small, but no camera bump makes it look like they're using a cheaper camera?

[–] encom 3 days ago

Nobody cares if a tablet has a shit camera.

[–] olsondv 2 days ago

I’ve seen enough parents at graduations and tourists to know people use it. Assuming they need the big screen because their vision is bad which undermines the need for a high res photo in the first place.

[–] devindotcom 3 days ago

woah - that's pretty shocking to me actually. in the past they generally have just used flattering angles. This is downright deception.

[–] lotsofpulp 3 days ago

I presume it is a flattering angle instead of a falsified image. The camera bump is near the one large button, which was furthest from the camera when they rotate it, so the iPad could have been angled slightly to hide the bump. Maybe someone can try to reproduce it after it comes out to see if it is a false image.

[–] frantathefranta 3 days ago

Yeah, the picture of the iPad is probably taken like /, not like |.

[–] codehorses 3 days ago

This is literally just a flattering angle. Not saying it's not deceptive, but they didn't "edit" the camera bump out of the image.

[–] devindotcom 3 days ago

https://www.apple.com/v/ipad-mini/a/images/overview/product-...

this is directly side-on. they've def removed the camera bump. In the initial animation at the top where the hand grabs it too. the bump is very clear in shots later!

wait... could they have hidden it under the hand? and why does that person's thumb seem extra long?! the more I look at this the less I understand it.

[–] estebank 3 days ago

Perspective is still at play. At arms length, on my phone, if I make it so the flat surface is completely aligned with my center of vision, the bottom side covers at least 1mm of whatever is on the underside. The closer one gets to the phone, the more pronounced the effect.

The video keeps triggering my sense of seeing CGI, but the hiding effect on display can absolutely be accomplished in camera.

[–] cj 3 days ago

That thumb looks incredibly photoshopped (or AI edited).

[–] ChrisRR 3 days ago

It always reminds me of the imac from 15 or so years ago when they were touting how thin the imac was.

In reality the back was curved, and they took pictures from an angle that only showed off the edge of the screen and not how far back it curved

[–] swiftcoder 3 days ago

> In reality the back was curved, and they took pictures from an angle that only showed off the edge of the screen and not how far back it curved

You only see the thickness at the back from an angle where you can't actually use the computer (and for many people, that whole angle is going to be against the wall). This is the good kind of design - making something appear beautiful without compromising the core function.

I'm distinctly less convinced about ever-thinner mobile devices that I immediately have to slap a case on...

[–] olyjohn 3 days ago

The older iMacs that were the same thickness all the way across, they still looked good. Except they were some of the best machines to service. Literally two screws in the bottom, the whole thing split in half, and your hard drive, memory and other components were right there. I worked on tons of them and they were fantastic. It saved people money in the long run when they needed an upgrade because it took less time. Even replacing the screen or logic board in them was a piece of cake.

[–] justusthane 2 days ago

If I recall they did the exact same thing with the first iPhone that had the camera bump.

[–] sandcat_ 3 days ago

The argument is most people use a case regardless, so if it were the same thickness across the device, the iPad would be considerably thicker once in a case. That and weight. I don’t use cases so it bothers me too, but it does make some sense.

[–] threetonesun 3 days ago

It's still very strange how much work goes into the materials for the case and the ergonomics and weight of holding the devices without a case just to assume everyone will put it in a case. I'm with you on iPads, they get too heavy/thick for their primary uses once in a case. The phones I sort of get but I still think it ruins a lot of the aesthetic choices they make about the case design.

[–] chis 3 days ago

I've always thought this too. An iPad with an integrated case would be able to fill the entire flat back area with a battery, and just have rubber on the edges where impact protection is needed. The existing design is really optimized around having an impressive experience in the store when holding an uncased product, before you inevitably cover it.

[–] Gigachad 3 days ago

Why would you want an integrated case? The soft impact absorbing materials degrade much faster than the aluminum. Look at the average ipad users case and it's falling to pieces, you don't want that permanently fixed to the device.

There's also many users who don't need a case. A lot of ipads are POS systems that are fixed to the bench so they don't need a case either.

[–] simoncion 3 days ago

> Why would you want an integrated case? The soft impact absorbing materials degrade much faster than the aluminum.

Given that the impact-absorbing parts could be [0]

  ...rubber on the edges where impact protection is needed.

and could obviously be designed to be replaceable, either by a handy user or an Apple Technician, why wouldn't you want Apple to design the feel and balance of a device with a case that has built-in impact protection?

Apple's decision to make most of its handhelds out of various grades of "fragililum" has boggled my mind since they sold the first iPhone with an easily-shattered glass back. That choice makes sense for a conspicuous status symbol that people are going to take very good care of... but most folks either end up with one with damage that makes plain how theirs is not the kind of life that makes that possible, or they have installed some aftermarket shell that ruins the effect by covering up the conspicuously fragile part of the hardware.

[0] <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50247743>

[–] rjh29 3 days ago

I find it annoying too, I assume it's because thin and light devices sell more (both in promo photos and when used in Apple stores).

My mum's Samsung S23 Ultra has a ridiculous camera bump and rocks back and forth when you use it, even with some thinner cases. You need a super thick case for it to stay stable.

[–] bob1029 3 days ago

I have a hard time believing the camera bump isn't the result of intensive consumer psychology experiments. Setting a bare apple device down on a flat surface feels like chair with a leg sawed off. They need you to buy the accessories. This is part of making the ecosystem viable.

[–] al_borland 3 days ago

Half the time their mid-year fresh is just a new color, with a huge marketing push. If everyone has a case, colors become a moot point.

I also don’t think I’ve ever seen an Apple exec use a case, as it would imply the phones are durable and a case is needed, which they don’t want to convey. (Bumpers for antenna-gate aside)

[–] jazzyjackson 3 days ago

Nah it’s just easier to pick up a phone when one edge is higher than the other.

[–] belzebub 3 days ago

The correct answer. The camera bump is intentional and so is building phones that aren't resilient to drops out of the box. What do you mean I can't have a phone with rubber bumpers on the corners?

[–] encom 3 days ago

>resilient to drops

I would be content if they'd stop making phones slippier than a wet bar of soap. My Pixel 8a is ridiculous, I don't know how they do it. If you have dry hands, it's nearly impossible to hold on to.

[–] saltcured 3 days ago

Yeah, I added a boring case on day 1 and would have trouble describing the feel of the bare device right now.

Found one on Amazon so I dodge Google's exorbitant plastic markup, and it is a relatively minimalist wrap that smooths out the camera bump and makes it more grippy in hand, in pockets, and on flat surfaces.

The behavior of those slippery phones in pockets is almost the bigger gripe to me. Like they are a new class of motion amplifier, trying to rotate and squirt their way out at the slightest twitch.

[–] jghn 3 days ago

This made me realize I have an inconsistency I never noticed.

I would never use a case with a phone of any sort. I don't like the extra bulk, and the friction they add is annoying.

Meanwhile I never use a tablet or kindle device without a cover.

[–] PcChip 3 days ago

like the apple tv remote.. plus those are so sensitive too

[–] ssl-3 3 days ago

Google Chromecast remote is bad, too.

The curvature on the back of those is such that it's harder to rotate into a position so the thumb can hit the right button than a flat surface would be.

It also means that resting it on the arm of a recliner produces about the same result as just dropping it into the void to begin with: It's going to wind up there either way.

[–] gregglain 3 days ago

Airpod cases are horrible. Best wrapped a rubbery non-slip case

[–] thiht 3 days ago

> phones that aren't resilient to drops out of the box

What year is it, 2012?

[–] skydhash 3 days ago

I have my iPhone 13 in a $10 cover for years now. I don’t like the bump, but I don’t think it’s a scheme to buy covers.

Also my favorite smartphone was a motorola with a cloth back (ballistic something) and a metal frame. No cover was needed for this one.

[–] Zircom 3 days ago

There used to be an "Active" line of Galaxy phones that had built in umpers before they discontinued them.

[–] addaon 3 days ago

> umpers

To "b" or not to "b". Apparently the latter.

[–] etatester 3 days ago

I'm ok with the bump, but make it not wiggle on a damn table. Google figured this out. The first MacBook Airs figured this out (wedge).

They came up with the plateau, just make the whole plateau flat already.

[–] mvanbaak 3 days ago

[read in Steve Jobs voice]: "You are putting it down wrong" If you put the screen size on the table, the device does not wobble ;P

before you vote down, this is not a serious response

[–] venzaspa 3 days ago

If they levelled it out you could surely fit a far larger battery in it too. I'd far rather have a device 1.5mm thicker with a battery lifespan twice as long and no silly bump on it.

[–] matwood 3 days ago

Would you also like the extra weight of such a device?

[–] HoldOnAMinute 2 days ago

Everyone I've ever known, would gladly make that tradeoff.

[–] paulwilsontx01 3 days ago

what premium would you pay for this? asking for a friend.

[–] encom 3 days ago

Zero. Ignoring that Apple prices are already inflated beyond all reason, a larger battery would add a single digit dollar amount to the BOM.

[–] internet2000 3 days ago

Ok, so they'll continue making thinner devices that appeal to more people then.

[–] encom 3 days ago

>implying that Apple cares about what users want

[–] internet2000 2 days ago

They do. That’s why they discontinued the mini phones. Nobody likes those.

[–] bryanlarsen 3 days ago

Since basically everybody uses a case anyways, the important factors are weight and width with the case on. This design makes both of those significantly smaller than your suggestion.

[–] paxy 3 days ago

Even stupider for iPads because who even is using the back camera? Just get rid of it entirely and the device will be exactly as functional.

[–] AlanYx 3 days ago

A surprising amount of people use the back camera for document scanning.

[–] koiueo 3 days ago

Probably if the (in)famous airdrop was more reliable, people could figure out they can scan with their phone and airdrop to their tablet.

Too bad though, there's no way to put a scanned document onto iPad in Apple's ecosystem other than the otherwise useless camera.

[–] 72deluxe 3 days ago

Some people don't have iPhones though. Rare, I know. I have an iPad and my wife has an iPhone but I have never owned one at all and instead have always used Android right from the HTC G1.

[–] dawnerd 3 days ago

I use it quite often for scanning QR codes.

[–] swiftcoder 3 days ago

To be fair, the iPad mini is a way better form-factor for camera use than any of the big iPads. I think the only time I've ever used the rear camera on the 12" iPad was to scan a document...

[–] jghn 3 days ago

I've seen asshats at concerts holding their iPads up to record. Bad enough when people hold their phones up, but this was next level.

[–] dylan604 3 days ago

WAT. Just because you do not does not mean you get to dictate how others can use it. I know lots of people that use the rear camera on iPads. I'm one of them.

[–] dpark 3 days ago

> Just because you do not does not mean you get to dictate how others can use it.

No one attempted to dictate anything. They expressed an opinion. HN is a discussion forum. This is exactly what it’s for.

Your point would look stronger if you had only included your last two sentences without the indignation of the first two.

[–] dylan604 3 days ago

"Just get rid of it entirely and the device will be exactly as functional."

That is not expressing of an opinion but dictating an action. "I think they should get rid of it entirely..." would be the expressing of an opinion.

[–] dpark 3 days ago

Do you imagine that Apple designers are trolling HN to generate their next device plans?

He’s literally expressing an opinion. There is no in here to “dictate” to.

[–] r_lee 3 days ago

then everything would be just tiptoeing and nothing would be interesting.... it's not like someone saying that will actually cause Apple to get rid of it

[–] phoghed 3 days ago

Yes they are just whining into the void about something they can’t change. Great use of everyone’s time all around.

More likely though they’re trying to signal their membership to the in-group that’s always circle jerking on every iPhone/iPad post about SD cards, removable battery, thick small phone, flush camera, etc.

[–] dpark 3 days ago

Whining into the void is most conversation online is. It’s what you are doing, too.

The top comment thread here is complaining about the camera bump.

[–] Doohickey-d 3 days ago

Tangentially related: this is the funniest rant about this "devices with a fat camera bump that don't lay flat" rant that exists: "Why?" - Lazy Posy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP7lYuyGTmg

[–] unethical_ban 3 days ago

More material, bigger battery = heavier device. For something this size I figure people want something they can comfortably hold in one hand for a session.

Perhaps if they put a very small lip around the camera lens and a physical bump on the other side so the device doesn't rock, at least it would be symmetrical and the glass would be slightly less prone to surface contact.

[–] HoldOnAMinute 2 days ago

A real pro model would be chunky and blocky with lots of connectors, ports, and user replaceable parts.

Why can't we have two product lines. Classic/Elegant and Pro/Chunky

[–] gwbas1c 3 days ago

I always keep my phone in a case... I've had one too many drops, and I'm super-careful.

That being said, even with my Pixel in a case, the camera still protrudes.

It would be interesting to try a camera where the lens extends out when the camera is activated; and flat otherwise.

[–] dgellow 3 days ago

Isn’t the bump already used to pack components that don’t fit in the rest of the device body? I don’t believe it’s only used for the camera.

Though I do hate that bump. I just tried a duo and the bump makes it awkward to hold as a tablet

[–] JK-Swizzle 3 days ago

A lot of their devices do that, but I doubt there is space in the iPad mini bump to fit anything.

The big examples are iPhone Air and iMac.

From my experience, the iPhone bumps are a lot more noticeable than their iPad siblings.

[–] mandeepj 3 days ago

> This requires a cover to equalize the size with the camera for haptic reasons.

Not really! The cover just follows the seam. And larger batteries will increase the weight as well, which Apple definitely doesn't want.

[–] ChocolateGod 3 days ago

> larger batteries and make the device the same thickness everywhere

thermals.

[–] ProfessorLayton 3 days ago

apple literally uses batteries as thermal mass.

[–] echoangle 3 days ago

Aren't most people using their device with a case anyways?

[–] Hamuko 3 days ago

Not sure about the iPad Mini, but I've really only seen the bigger iPads with a case. There's just so much screen to damage, and you do really want some kind of way to prop up the bigger iPads. I very rarely remove my iPad Pro from its keyboard case.

[–] izzydata 3 days ago

This is why I believe the Pixel 10a is the best designed phone to date.

[–] weezing 3 days ago

It looks like 1:1 iPhone copy minus camera bump.

[–] izzydata 3 days ago

All phones are just rectangles. The no camera bump is the most important part. It is completely flat on both sides.

[–] weezing 1 day ago

Some rectangles are more distinct than the others

[–] NetMageSCW 3 days ago

More battery means more weight, and no one wants these to be heavier.

[–] HoldOnAMinute 2 days ago

False. That is a false statement. You said that "no one" wants these to be heavier, when in fact, many people would gladly accept a few nanograms of extra weight for a better battery. Look at everyone with a Clutch or Anker attached to their phone.

[–] itishappy 3 days ago

Then just remove the camera in return for nothing. Less weight and a slimmer form!

[–] ezconnect 3 days ago

It makes sense for the manufacturer, they save a LOT of materials.

[–] WithinReason 3 days ago

Like nitrogen and oxygen gas that would take up the extra space inside?

[–] addaon 3 days ago

Density is insanely highly correlated with the perception of premium quality. No one’s increasing the volume of premium devices beyond what’s needed to hold components.

[–] PalmPilotProMax 3 days ago

iOxygen and iNitrogen can be quite expensive, especially if you get the Apple+ option.

[–] chihuahua 3 days ago

The most advanced form of Oxygen and Nitrogen ever seen. Steve Jobs himself invented the precise mixture of isotopes.

[–] turblety 3 days ago

Yeah it's infuriating. I love how even Apple are embarrassed by it, since in the first two animations of people holding and rotating the device they've left off the camera bump, making it look smooth flat.

[–] water-drummer 3 days ago

What about weight?

[–] hollerith 3 days ago

The extra volume can be air like it is in most consumer electronics.

[–] alberth 3 days ago

The iPad Mini has never had a camera bump.

[–] throwaway270925 3 days ago

Looking at my now "old" ipad mini 2024: you might want to delete that comment - and google picturesearch a bit ;)

[–] Arcuru 3 days ago

But don't you just need a big camera on your giant tablet? How will you ever manage if you don't have a nice camera on both sides of all your handheld devices? /s

If they put the tiny "front-facing" camera pointed out the back it would be enough for the vast majority of people I imagine.

[–] NikolaNovak 3 days ago

That's the thing - I genuinely don't understand the user or usage Venn diagram : when and who will 1. Have an expensive ipad with them and require a good big camera, but 2. Not have an equivalently competent phone with them?

Don't get me wrong, I understand it happens - back when I did wedding photography, one of my massive pet peeves were the uncles and grandparents who stepped into the aisle with their massive tablets just as bride is starting her walk... But I do not understand it at all :-/.

I'd absolutely happily completely kill the rear facing tablet camera. I've had at least a dozen android and ipad tablets and I genuinely don't think I took a single photo with them - it'd feel weird and awkward and so ostentious.

(As always as a consumer, clearly I'm in minority here :-})

[–] dylan604 3 days ago

When I use the rear camera, it's part of a feature of some other app that clearly makes sense to use as a tablet. You're bogged down as it being used as a primary camera as a photographer. There are other needs for cameras other than portraits. Using the rear camera in an AR mode is quite handy in apps.

[–] rcoder 2 days ago

The most common use-case for the rear iPad camera in our household is stop-motion animation. There are some great apps for this, and the big screen (when effectively stabilized on a tablet stand or tripod + clamp) is lovely for composing and comparing frames.

[–] NikolaNovak 3 days ago

Fair - thank you for that context! :)

[–] Telemakhos 2 days ago

Note that the uncles and grandparents are all old. When you get to a certain age, your eyes don't like to focus on small things like cameras. The elderly prefer tablets, and they want to be able to take pictures of their nieces and nephews and grandchildren.

[–] amelius 3 days ago

Yes that stupid camera bump ... I hope those designers lose their jobs to AI. Then again, perhaps they already did :)