That's so insane to me. This top mathematician (and colleagues) at her pinnacle spent years proving it in three dims and now OAI proves it in every dimension...
[–] robotpepi 3 days ago
[–] arutar 2 days ago
Hong Wang and Josh Zahl proved something a bit stronger, namely that the Kakeya conjecture holds for families of tubes satisfying the "Convex Wolff Axioms". From the outside this looks like a weird technical detail but if you unpack this you get an exceptional example of 'the journey is worth more than the destination'.
The idea for resolving Kakeya in R3 originates in the work of Jean Bourgain and a connection to the discretized sum-product phenomenon (the idea, in R, that "sum" and "product" are geometrically incompatible). This approach is summarized in Terry Tao's blog post from 12 years ago now [1].
Basically, the efforts to make this approach work resulted in the development of an entirely new and extraordinarily active subfield that one might call "continuous incidence geometry". This led to ideas like restricted projection theory (with spectacular applications in homogeneous dynamics and number theory), decoupling (another one of Thomas Wolff's ideas, and was realized by Bourgain and Demeter), the resolution of the Furstenberg set theorem, etc. There are very far-ranging applications, some of which even appeared on HN, and which a priori look totally unrelated, like the Heilbronn Triangle problem [2]
I know this is out of the context of most here on HN but let me say it in short: the development of the sum-product approach to Kakeya has resulted in a huge improvement of our understanding of the fundamental additive and multiplicative structure of Euclidean space.
OpenAI's proof of local smoothing in Rd shortcuts this entire matter. Don't get me wrong, the proof is phenomenal, and it's amazing that Local Smoothing admits a short, essentially self-contained proof (only uses some facts about elliptic PDEs which I can't comment about unfortunately since it isn't my area).
Hong Wang didn't win the fields medal for proving Kakeya in three dimensions (only). She won because of her incredible contributions to the development of continuous incidence geometry. The proof of local smoothing certainly contains a lot of very interesting insights into the wave equation but, if this proof had appeared in 2014 just like this, I do not think we would have had the same amount of development.
To me, this is the heart of the matter. For mathematicians, only having these incredible new proofs with no "social consequences" would be extraordinary. However, if we are not careful, the idea that math is "solved" will degrade the mathematics tradition in its own right. Where will be in 10 years, in 50 years? Humans, by virtue of being much worse at computations than computers, must build the "correct" abstractions in order to discover new mathematics. If this process is somehow lost, independently of the computer's ability to prove an infinite tower of new results, the mathematics tradition will suffer for it.
[1]: https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2014/05/07/stickiness-grainin...
[–] bamb008 2 days ago
AI has only been able to advance the math frontier for a couple of months, fully grasping the applications, connections, and possible generalizations takes longer.
[–] arutar 2 days ago
My original comment was perhaps badly written: my point was that the OpenAI proof does not subsume the previous efforts because they are proving something stronger than Kakeya using very geometric methods based on the discretized sum-product theory in the real line. This approach has basically revolutionized modern analysis. Kakeya is just one very publicly visible problem. All of the other byproducts are in total of much greater interest than the resolution of Kakeya itself.
It's like Fermat's last theorem: who cares about solutions to x^n + y^n = z^n? It's the underlying theory-building in algebraic geometry that is the actual interesting product in its own right. If someone finds an extraordinarily clever 1 page proof of Fermat's last theorem it does not mean that the progress on algebraic geometry was useless.
I want to point out as well that it's quite common for humans to find very short clever proofs of difficult old results. Those proofs have value of course but rarely do they generalize. One of the goals of mathematics is to understand the fundamental mechanism underlying why things are true; proofs (of any origin) that are too slick is antithetical to this.
[–] cjohnson318 3 days ago
[–] anshumankmr 3 days ago
(which is somewhat valid). Though I think a far more interesting thing would be whether AI given the corpus of 19th century mathematics and physics reproduce what Ramanujam or what Einstein did.
[–] jazzyjackson 3 days ago
IMO that there is any work at all to build from is the result of a long tradition of taking the next step. Professor to student and so on. The danger of AI here is we get to take a leap, say, 10 steps - but then there is no more tradition to have the fortitude and mentoring necessary to continue the progress.
It all gets derailed while betting on RSI and never having to do math research again (but if an advanced theorem is proven, and no one alive is competent enough to comprehend it, does it even matter that we get to call it solved?)
[–] olmo23 2 days ago
For any applied mathematics: of course it matters if I can use a better algorithm for $PROBLEM. Yes, even if I do not understand it (I'd like a LEAN certificate tho)! As for pure mathematics, it can be argued that it never mattered in the first place.
[–] soon_to_be_sb 3 days ago
They know that value creation is a dead end sooner or later..
[–] alfiedotwtf 2 days ago
[–] RugnirViking 2 days ago
One of these areas it's not good at is sadly it's social ability. It's terrible at explaining things - just try asking ask it to explain code !
[–] olmo23 2 days ago
[–] RugnirViking 2 days ago
[–] zhobbs 2 days ago
[–] bemtevi 3 days ago
It's all well and good to say that we should just go on these journeys for our own enrichment, but even so they will just be doing it alone...or else not do it at all because they need a shared human effort surrounding them to do it, and therefore end up depressed and immersed in drugs or media all day.
Of course we're awed at what AI can do now, because all of us observing it have had the luxury of having such opportunities before AI. I got my PhD before AI and I found satisfaction in participating in a shared math community, which I wouldn't have done if I were starting my PhD now, because I would find the current academic environment unacceptable and useless.
[–] xp84 3 days ago
[–] krige 3 days ago
[–] NetMageSCW 2 days ago
[–] krige 1 day ago
[–] xp84 3 days ago
[–] anshumankmr 2 days ago
[–] gewetensleegte 2 days ago
The first type of work pushes the field of mathematics further, the second kind strip-mines the sense of discovery and accomplishment and replaces it with math homework for high level mathematicians, because in order for it to be useful, it still needs to be turned into a human readable proof.
It's imho not valid to say OpenAI is "building off" other mathematicians work, in the same way as humans, do.
[–] hollowturtle 2 days ago
I don't think so, it was a big leap forward in terms of creativity, imagination, rigor and experimentation. Einstein was able to "run" visual thought experiments inside his mind
[–] joe_the_user 3 days ago
That's rhetorical, right? Of course mathematicians built on what older mathematicians built and OpenAI's machine built on that. The real question whether OpenAI's machine has contributed something others will in turn build on.
[–] pfdietz 2 days ago
This has already happened.
[–] anshumankmr 3 days ago
[–] ubersketch 3 days ago
[–] Valakas_ 3 days ago
[–] cjohnson318 1 day ago
[–] casey2 1 day ago
[–] soVeryTired 3 days ago
[–] gewetensleegte 2 days ago
Because the real question is not whether anyone or anything built on other work, but whether any human can build on that work.
And so far, yet again, OpenAI has stopped just shy of that, instead creating math homework for mathematical geniuses while taking away their sense of discovery and accomplishment.
[–] Nomennonhabeo 3 days ago
[–] Gabriel54 2 days ago
[–] casey2 1 day ago