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points by kube-system 10 hours ago | 0 comments

Do train conductors not have the final authority in safe operation the way airline pilots do? If so that is absolutely insane.

[–] 1718627440 7 hours ago

The equivalent is a tower telling a pilot they should land and the runway is clear, except it isn't. And there also being fog, so you can't see it before it is too late. And you can magically not veer of. Planes can go around in three dimensions and try to rise again, a train basically moves in one direction, if they see the problem, it is way to late.

There is no point in the train driver making a decision about where the train goes, because he has no information for that decision. Hence it is also not his job. Like, yeah if he has reasonable reasons to think there is something wrong, nobody is going to fire him, but what is the policy that allows him to do so, while not just randomly deciding to not drive today? There is no difference for him, until he is about to die.

[–] kube-system 7 hours ago

Pilots have the final say to refuse or stop a flight for any safety reason of their judgement... even if others tell them it is safe. And they are protected not by policy, but by law in doing so in the US and most countries.

[–] 1718627440 7 hours ago

But they also have the means to do so. If a train driver has a reasonable doubt about safety, nobody is going to punish them. But there is simply no way the doubts are reasonable, so it becomes just randomly doing otherwise, at which point the question is asked whether you are fit for the job.

[–] kube-system 7 hours ago

I fail to see how following normal safety protocol of proceeding at 40km/h would have been indefensible or unreasonable? They are the rules of operation for this scenario and exist for the exact reason we are reading this story. I can’t think of anything more defensible than “I am not going to break safety rules”

Never would a pilot be reprimanded for refusing an ATC order to move their plane in a way that violates established protocols

[–] 1718627440 6 hours ago

I don't know, because there is no actual proper safety report yet. That certainly sounds reasonable, but obviously the dispatchers though otherwise. Likely because they did not actually understood that there was a problem, but that it's just that annoying bug again.