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points by JumpCrisscross 2 days ago | 0 comments

"'I just had to be sure because I’m not a regular cop, I’m part of the FBI, and when I scanned your plate I could see you had suspicious travel patterns,' I think is how he worded it" [1].

This isn't traffic cops, it's federal police. And it isn't suspicious driving patterns, e.g. weaving, it's full-on movement tracking.

[1] https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/ai-driven-polic...

[–] tbyehl 2 days ago

More likely they are regular cops participating in some joint task force. There are more state, county, and local police agencies in this country than there are FBI Special Agents.

[–] wildzzz 2 days ago

I see a lot of police bodycam videos on YouTube of cops stopping drug traffickers for bullshit reasons (5 over speed limit on highway, crossing the line, following too closely) and it's usually a state or county cop that's on a federal task force or they'll have a "civilian ride along" in the car that gets way more involved than any civilian would ever be. They aren't actually an employee of the FBI but they have credentials from the FBI due to their task force job, it gives them access to FBI databases and bulletins while they still maintain their normal police job.

It's really bizarre to watch those videos because they are very routine. They stop the person for marginal lawbreaking, ask them to step out and sit in the front of their cruiser, then the traffic violations turn into warnings, cop makes basic small talk while writing warning and pretty much ignores everything suspect says, cop asks about any contraband in the car and asks to search, suspect usually (stupidly) agrees to search, cops pretty much instantly find the drugs. And if the suspect says no to the search, the K9 unit is already pulling up behind them because they were called before the cop ever turned on their lights and siren.

It's incredibly obvious these are pretextual stops. There is definitely a national program tracking license plates because there's no reasonable explanation for cops getting this lucky on pulling over random people that are driving completely unremarkable.

I'm pretty sure that's how they caught that megachurch pastor smuggling drugs for the cartel, they look for travel patterns for license plates and especially look at rental car registrations. You can't pull over every car but you can definitely look for cars making repeated trips, especially those that are made to known trafficking cities.

I had a friend from highschool that got pretty involved with his mom with drug trafficking. They caught him at some Indian reservation that overlaps upstate NY and Canada. The arrest affidavit states the cops saw a car parked for a couple hours at a casino and then followed the car to the border of the Indian reservation. Then they waited for the car to leave and then pulled him over for crossing a line. Of course they found significant ketamine in the car. The cops already knew who they were looking for because a car parked at a casino for a couple hours is not suspicious and definitely not suspicious enough to follow.

[–] estearum 2 days ago

> because there's no reasonable explanation for cops getting this lucky on pulling over random people that are driving completely unremarkable.

Wouldn't you need to know how often random people are stopped for no reason?

People in poor neighborhoods and near e.g. reservations get stopped all the time for no reason at all.

[–] balderdash 2 days ago

My small town newspaper had a police blotter - almost all the dui arrests the pretext is failure to stay in lane (eg they touched either the yellow line or the white line on the right, the town is on the country and it is practically (if not literally) to never touch a line driving (sometimes I try it just for fun and it takes an insane amount of concentration on winding roads)

Point being is that if you drive there is a pretext for a stop.

[–] kevin_thibedeau 2 days ago

> There is definitely a national program tracking license plates

They track everyone's phone. The plate cross reference is only needed to nab someone in traffic.

[–] GritsPicks 2 days ago

Phones aren't always a guarantee so they moved to alternative tracking methods.

TPMS sensors: Modern vehicles have tire-pressure sensors in or near each wheel. Many transmit a unique sensor ID by short-range radio. Bartec describes diagnostic equipment being capable of displaying both the vehicle's VIN and TPMS sensor IDs.

Application from Tortured Genius Enterprises LLC, describes a system intended to:

intercept TPMS radio transmissions from passing vehicles;

extract the sensors' unique identifiers;

associate those identifiers with a particular vehicle;

determine vehicle location;

connect the identifier with outside databases;

potentially retrieve make, model, VIN and owner information;

maintain historical observations;

predict future locations/behavior;

direct law enforcement to intercept a vehicle.

https://networks.imdea.org/your-cars-tire-sensors-could-be-u...

[–] wil421 1 day ago

Why would they do any of that when they can track your phone? There’s a 911 equipment that can position you inside a building when you call 911. The systems are already out here you don’t need a not-the-FBI unmarked van taking TPMS readings.

Look up NextNav.

[–] ProllyInfamous 2 days ago

I don't own a cell phone, and I don't display a plate on my generic vehicle.

----

No illusions that I'm not also traceable. Tracked.

[–] HWR_14 2 days ago

> I don't display a plate on my generic vehicle.

So, no need for a pretextual stop. You are giving them a real reason to pull you over at any time.

[–] ProllyInfamous 1 day ago

Correct; everything else is "above board" (e.g: insured, registered).

In Tennessee, the first two offenses for improper display of license plate are $10 & $20 fines, respectively (but obviously this allows them to initiate a traffic stop; a younger-me couldn't afford this risk). In the past year+, a dozen officers have ignored my plateless transgressions.

This has the side-effect of encouraging me to obey most traffic laws more rigorously (e.g: I speed less, am generally less-aggressive).

----

I am a middle-aged fat bald white dude in the US South – I'm practically invisible!

FYI: Halloween is officially "Drive without a License Plate Day" (to protest FLOCK cameras)

[–] wildzzz 1 day ago

"hey there goes that guy with no plates again"

[–] a_e_k 1 day ago

https://xkcd.com/1105/

[–] 1over137 2 days ago

> I don't display a plate on my generic vehicle

Sovereign citizen?

[–] Melatonic 2 days ago

Or he rides a bicycle

[–] ProllyInfamous 1 day ago

I own a bike, too, but my car also doesn't have plates attached (it is registered & insured, though).

[–] Pxtl 2 days ago

Now I'm wondering what it's like for people whose lives naturally involve "suspicious travel patterns" but aren't actually doing anything suspicious.

Like, how often do people who live on that rez get pulled over?

[–] MisterTea 2 days ago

> The cops already knew who they were looking for because a car parked at a casino for a couple hours is not suspicious and definitely not suspicious enough to follow.

The above is key to understanding that part, they KNEW who the smuggler was. They just needed a legal reason to pull them over.

[–] Pxtl 1 day ago

Right but the travel pattern they used to determine that this person was a smuggler is "frequently drives to/from the rez", as if there's no legit reason to be doing that.

[–] MisterTea 1 day ago

Right but you and I do not know the details of the investigation so there is no point speculating.

[–] kevin_thibedeau 2 days ago

It's a known smuggling epicenter because the reservation covers both sides of the border and doesn't have normal border controls at crossings.

[–] kotaKat 2 days ago

They USED to, until Canada wanted to lightly arm the border officers (something the US side has done for decades) and then they all lost their shit and forced Canadian Customs to move inland instead of the original POE they used.

Yes, I’m a local, and I lost my entire respect for that reservation as a First Nations myself for how they run their show of crooked corruption.

All they've got is nothing but pot dispensaries (both "legitimate" and "illegal" ones that they're chasing internally because of a power struggle between themselves), the casino, a failed attempt to own the Restasis patent, and endless billboards telling you to either not do drugs or not beat your wife. Oh, and all the 'under the table' drugs at the illegal dispensaries - I've heard from the college news network that they're lacing weed with coke and fent to some students they sell to.

Welcome to Awkwesasne!

[–] jon128 2 days ago

  p a r a l l e l   c o n s t r u c t i o n

[–] roody15 2 days ago

Exactly. One of the most dystopian legal concepts that is just brushed over … or more likely most people don’t know it exists.

Imagine going to trial being charged with a crime and defend against a “pretend” investigation that could have theoretically happened.

Imagine that this passes legal scrutiny.

Mr. Smith after a long investigation and hundreds of hours of detective work we have evidence you are smuggling drugs and justice is served when we found you speeding on interstate 80.

Truth: we just illegally monitored you cell phone and later intercepted your direct conversation after using IMSI catcher to monitor all your texting patterns. An AI system detected an unusual pattern and alerted us to your activity.

[–] mikewarot 1 day ago

> following too closely

Having ended up in the middle of a 5 car sandwich going to last years VCFMW, I've learned we all collectively fail to understand that the car in front of us can be stopped, in addition to using it's own brakes.

[–] jojobas 2 days ago

How do we know they don't stop a ton of random people for 5-miles-over speeding and let them off with a warning?

[–] slumberlust 1 day ago

Because warnings don't just disappear. The stop and warning is still catalogued.

[–] jojobas 1 day ago

Pretty sure some warnings are just verbal and don't even get recorded.

[–] ndsipa_pomu 1 day ago

Whilst I agree with your general points, it's worth mentioning that increased traffic policing can result in a surprising amount of connections to other crimes. It appears that criminals develop a disregard for laws in general and this carries over to their driving mentality.

A classic example of this is the eventual capture of Peter Sutcliffe, the "Yorkshire Ripper" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Sutcliffe#Arrest

[–] jon128 2 days ago

If that ever happens to you then document on a Blockchain that you have first-hand knowledge that someone has committed a crime against you, specifically 18 U.S. Code § 242. By not reporting a crime like that you could leave your fellow Americans exposed to a criminal by leaving that criminal undocumented. But, be very careful as in doing so you are liable for your spoken or written utterances.

  18 U.S. Code § 242 - Deprivation of rights under color of law 

  Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both [..]

  https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/242

[–] JumpCrisscross 2 days ago

> document on a Blockchain that you have first-hand knowledge that someone has committed a crime against you

Farting into a wind is about as effective with the difference of being free.

If someone wants to actually fight this, a dash cam streaming somewhere offsite and secure (cloud is fine) is a million times more effective. It provides direct, court-admissible proof of the claim in a way a personal diary entry, in a notebook or on a blockchain, never could. Barring that, an audio recording on your phone. (Would check your state and local laws first, however.)

[–] jon128 2 days ago

The Blockchain part is the for the notary part. No one is going to store a video file or the relevant PDF files of sworn testimony on a Blockchain itself, and an S3 bucket is fine of course ; I would have already thought this was extremely obvious.

The notary part is absolutely essential. Renowned Blockchains are the ULTIMATE for this use case. Sorry that you didn't already know this and the other part wasn't already obviously to be assumed by you.

I thought I was posting on a site called Hacker News, I was obviously being too assumptive. I'll spell things out more elaborately in comments in the future.

[–] bdamm 2 days ago

A court could care less about blockchain hashes unless the society of lawyers and judges decide it is legitimate. Did they? Last I heard blockchain hashes were as useful as any random bunch of numbers on a printed page.

[–] jon128 2 days ago

Notary service is an essential component to proceedings.

Courts have generally accepted proof of existence that is established by proper entries to robust distributed immutable ledgers.

More important than courts are the people. If someone many states over has a serious crime committed against them, and they want it to be known they have been wronged in some way, I and others have a moral right to know about it.

Those who know of an ill that has happened and choose to speak about it should be heard.

If someone provides testimony in the form of a video or a written statement, the files can be available over any medium such as torrent, R2 bucket, IPFS, what have you, but proof of existence on a blockchain for the authenticity aspect, "this exact thing identified by this sha512 hash submitted at this time" and unchangeable, is imperative.

The blockchain part is imperative so somebody can't "just go back and change something" post-facto.

If you want to see an example of a court action going a different way due to what was written to a robust distributed immutable ledger, do a web search for "Craig Wright is a fraud posted by private keys he said he owned".

That is the Satoshi Blockchain referenced to and swaying a court on a cosmic scale.

>> A court could care less about blockchain hashes unless the society of lawyers and judges decide it is legitimate.

Facts are not determined by loose consensus decided by private societies. The standard is higher. Such private societies are also not a substitute for the legislature, nor could they be for determining a true fact.

Blockchains and their contents are rooted in math so they're not trivial to argue with. USA is rife with academia suitable to provide abundant expert witnesses for said math.

>> A court could care less about blockchain hashes

In practice this would lead to the case being escalated to a higher court. Or worse a federal lawsuit could be filed against a judge, which is not unheard of.

Judges aren't cosmically ultimate arbiters, they take an oath and have a duty and like anyone else who does, they are subject to rules and regulations for which there are real consequences for failure to abide by.

[–] bdamm 2 days ago

I understand where you're coming from, but until the math is accepted by a court and a procedure for validating authenticty is established within the society of judges, the burden for introducing this kind of evidence falls on whomever decides it is essential enough for their case to succeed. That's a very expensive proposition, so you can't really say that it is the process until a plaintiff or defendent with large enough pockets to afford the conversion of the legal society takes up the cause. Until then it's just random gibberish, and unavailable to the average person as a court admissible statement of authenticty for a digital artifact. The fact is that the "loose consensus" of "private societies" DOES determine acceptability, when that private society is the law society. Judges are only subject to the rules and regulations that other judges and prosecuters decide apply. There's nothing cosmic about it - it is very much rooted in the people who apply the law.

[–] jon128 2 days ago

The case that Craig Wright lost was years ago. The evidence that was posted to the Satoshi Blockchain was recognized by the court.

It's already happened.

>> Judges are only subject to the rules and regulations that other judges and prosecuters decide apply.

The last thing a state judge wants is a federal lawsuit against him where a federal judge reviews accusations that he/she didn't follow essential procedure.

>> it's just random gibberish

The plentiful expert witnesses from math departments and computer science departments from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and the like who will gladly show up to defend their fields (albeit will want to be paid), would say otherwise, if that were necessary, which it's not, because like has already been pointed out at least twice now

  it already happened.

[–] nilamo 2 days ago

> If that ever happens to you then document on a Blockchain

?? just any random blockchain? In what way does that help? Also, how? Are you buying small batches of bitcoin to spell a message out using morse code or something? Or is this an Etherium contract that does...?

[–] NikolaNovak 2 days ago

... why the blockchain? And which one? That seems a needless techno-complication, especially if you're trying to spread this advice wide.

[–] jon128 2 days ago

See

  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50264113