It seems like a pretty common misunderstanding in rank-and-file AI-boosterism. I'm guessing that reflects their initial experience, before their employer adjusts their expectations, extrapolated out to infinity. Your correct understanding makes AI sound like a bad deal for workers (and it is), so my theory AI-enthusiastic boosters have to engage in a degree of reality distortion to keep up their enthusiasm.
[–] jerf 3 days ago
[–] coldtea 3 days ago
The one who understands that "10 times the work" is not necessarily absorbable by the market, and adjust to whatever lesser value still works, and still fires a lot of the 100.
[–] Buttons840 3 days ago
That's how it will eventually pan out, but I guess the company gets a bag before the collapse.
[–] coldtea 3 days ago
And they find out replicating the product means little, it's the customer base, industry reputations, connections, support, ecosystem, and stuff, that matter.
[–] GuB-42 3 days ago
And that's how that "layoff Discord" can produce something that can matter to customers. It will be a smaller company, and small companies have a serious advantage when it comes to support: you can get an actual human, maybe even the main dev, he can actually do things rather than transferring you from chatbot to bureaucracy. It doesn't scale, but it may be enough to get a competitor started.
As for connections, you may have inadvertently let go of the guy who has the connections. And you may have fired a perfectly functional team, ready for from clever entrepreneur with connections (who may be one of the fired) to pick up. It is so much of a recognized problem that some big companies hire people just so that their competitors can't have them.
[–] fzeroracer 2 days ago
[–] GuB-42 2 days ago
And we here stories of "guy left big company to make his own startup" all the times. It is a common story for indie video game devs for instance.
[–] dvfjsdhgfv 2 days ago
[–] geodel 2 days ago
True. Also true that this was ZIRP phenomenon predominantly in big tech. And once mass layoffs started in big tech most of those ultra elite engineers/staff either retired or took job at lower pay instead of launching competitors to big tech.
[–] nilamo 3 days ago
[–] nostrademons 3 days ago
On the B2B level, business is basically relationships, because you want to have a person that you trust who you can go to with any concerns about your multimillion-$ relationship. The relationships are the hard part, which is why the biggest department in any enterprise startup is sales, and requests from the salespeople usually dominate the feature roadmap.
But on a consumer level, most companies invest precisely zero in relationships, because it is far too expensive to build a relationship with 300M consumers who each pay you $50/year. The parts that matter are a.) building a brand image b.) delivering a "good enough" product and c.) doing it cheaply.
AI does extremely well at all 3 of those. It's great at generating fictitious but plausible-sounding content that makes you feel great about yourself. It's a passable approximation at explaining how things are made, enough that a small organization could probably deliver a good-enough product. And it replaces all of those pesky humans that require HR departments and legal employment contracts and sales relationships and customer service. A significant portion of the work in any industry is simply greasing the supply chain, making all those transactions that need to happen along the way happen. Vertically integrate and automate those and you could probably rebuild the industry in a much cheaper, more efficient way.
I think many people are thinking too small with AI, on the level of "how will this help me do a task?" or "how will this help my job?" or "how will this help improve my company by getting rid of jobs?" The real money is in "how will this revolutionize the industry by getting rid of all the other companies?" or even "how will this replace society so there is a fair playing field for new industries to get started?"
[–] hackyhacky 3 days ago
[–] geodel 2 days ago
[–] hackyhacky 2 days ago
[–] hobo123 2 days ago
[–] Grombobulous 3 days ago
One of the experiences that stuck with my in my early career was when my coworkers heard talk of layoffs at their startup that was acquired by bigcorp, one of the first reactions was “maybe we should just do another startup.”
I was taken aback at how casually that idea was thrown around. They didn’t even have a specific idea, just the casual thought that they could just start another company.
[–] coldtea 3 days ago
That's how a lot of companies are made, even huge ones. Not everything comes from a specific focus, it's just "let's see what works to build a business that can make us money".
[–] pseudalopex 3 days ago
[–] Viliam1234 2 days ago
For example, I know a few companies which at the beginning were just body shops, but the long-term plan was to develop their own projects after they figure out what exactly their customers need most.
[–] Buttons840 3 days ago
And now you don't even have to use specialist knowledge, just describe the idea to AI and AI will implement it clean-room.
[–] abanana 3 days ago
[–] Grombobulous 3 days ago
It was more like “we could just build something.”
[–] 10111001 3 days ago
And what's going to be the result of that? Can the market really support that many competitors comfortably, and/or are you setting yourself up for business failure or Chinese-style involution and 996?
See, I want a comfortable happy life, not a stress-filled one of maximum market efficiency. AI + capitalism doesn't look like it's going to provide the former.
[–] Viliam1234 2 days ago
Whether this is realistic or not, I can imagine some people actually believing it.
[–] Buttons840 3 days ago
The less society spends on developers, the less valuable software is. If the day comes that we employ zero developers, then software will be worth zero dollars.
And yet, software will still be fulfilling an essential part of society, it just wont be a thing people are willing to pay for. So AI will still be around, and will still be essential (because somehow we have to maintain all this software), and AI will get better and better.
Eventually any knowledge work will be worth zero. Including the C-suite--especially the c-suite!
[–] samudrijan 3 days ago
If there is no market fit, 100 man-years is worth $0.
On the other hand, if 10K customers are willing to pay $15/month for a tool that took 30 man-months to build you have a handy $150K/month revenue stream.
[–] Buttons840 3 days ago
[–] 10111001 3 days ago
1. I don't think the "c-suite" is knowledge work.
2. If "any knowledge work will be worth zero" what will workers do? Manual labor? That's a horrible regression.
3. I think the direction AI is taking us is world where the only thing that will be worth anything is ownership (basically being rich), and you either own stuff or you don't. And all the ladders to get from no ownership to ownership will be pulled up.
[–] filoeleven 2 days ago
[–] solyin 3 days ago
[–] toyg 3 days ago
We don't need to buy movies, eat avocado, drink wine, wear new clothes, drive shiny cars, etc. We do it because we have been conditioned, over the centuries, to desire what rich people would want. Every time something becomes cheap (e.g. having a watch), capital owners simply redefine it so that it can be sold again as expensive (e.g. having a luxury watch).
[–] techpression 3 days ago
I benefit greatly from AI myself, but I use it to augment my capabilities, not as a slot machine for building things nobody will ever use, which seems to be the norm based on the products I use.
[–] pvab3 2 days ago
[–] SoftTalker 3 days ago
[–] sbarre 3 days ago
[–] solaire_oa 2 days ago
[–] neutronicus 3 days ago
[–] SoftTalker 3 days ago
[–] johnvanommen 3 days ago
\S
[–] hattmall 3 days ago
Now whether or not that would actually work given the reality of the AI output is a question, but that's the general premise.
[–] asdff 3 days ago
[–] ramblerman 2 days ago
Imo the vast majority of companies would be better with a lot less engineers. For the simple fact that they are not setup for producing that much work.
They need time to discuss, decide what they even want to accomplish, just letting your POs throw more features at all your products on a whim is hugely detrimental.
[–] mancerayder 2 days ago
[–] sokoloff 3 days ago
[–] Viliam1234 2 days ago
[–] anonzzzies 3 days ago
[–] robotresearcher 3 days ago
[–] amanaplanacanal 3 days ago
For that matter if we want to talk about percentage increases that should be a log scale. Productivity improvements appear to be slowing down.
[–] rootusrootus 2 days ago
I think it lags. There was a sag between the mid-70s and mid-90s, which is when computers and the Internet were being rapidly developed but weren't really hitting the business mainstream. But late 90s through today it clearly ramped up a lot -- my bet is this is because of IT. It just takes a long time, it's not a sharp jump because not every business gets on board immediately and productively.
My guess is AI ends up the same. But then again, I'm not an economist, only a developer, so I just think I can tell anything about that productivity graph.
[–] johnvanommen 3 days ago
I noticed this anecdotally; in 2021 it was especially noticeable that people were just phoning it in at work, and “quiet quitting” was a meme.
[–] rootusrootus 3 days ago
If I understand correctly, the spike in 2020 was not any kind of jump in real productivity, either, it is an artifact of how the calculation is made -- there was a sudden drop in hours from low paid workers who typically have a lower than average contribution to productivity (as measured), so laying a bunch of them off skews the per-hour calculation. Then as things settled down companies re-hired, and then over-hired.
[–] thwarted 2 days ago
[–] HDThoreaun 2 days ago
[–] 0c3ca83 3 days ago
Do the horses win in the market?
[–] paimapi 3 days ago
It's very normal to think that the extra revenue growth you bring in should mean you have either 1) a larger share of the pie for every efficiency increase that grows revenue or 2) less expectation from you, as a worker, to labor as intensively since you are continuing to bring in surplus value that is being actively skimmed from.
[–] coldtea 3 days ago
It's also very normal to force businesses by law to either or both. But it's not happening these days.
[–] singpolyma3 3 days ago
[–] oblio 3 days ago
[–] paimapi 3 days ago
https://jacobin.com/2026/09/labour-callaghan-neoliberalism-m...
https://dissentmagazine.org/article/the-legacy-of-the-clinto...
https://sk.sagepub.com/hnbk/edvol/the-sage-handbook-of-neoli...
[–] graemep 3 days ago
[–] paimapi 2 days ago
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/david-graeber-neolib...
[–] oceanplexian 3 days ago
Most of the tech companies I have worked at are ridiculously easy and generous, I get to work with smart people, and the entire job can be done in a few hours per week. It's not like we're doing manual labor and digging ditches; half the people on this website are laptop-class workers who occasionally use the slightest bit of energy to write a few lines of code or participate in a meeting.
I show up to work and I often do extra because I like it.
The company isn't "extracting" anything from me except the extremely consentual labor I want to give back simply out of the love of the game. If you don't feel that way, the problem isn't the capitalist system it's probably your own life choices.
[–] robotresearcher 3 days ago
That’s why your happy experience is not inconsistent with this description.
[–] halfmatthalfcat 3 days ago
[–] snapcaster 3 days ago
[–] singpolyma3 3 days ago
[–] flavionm 3 days ago
It's debatable whether he would even make as much as he gets paid currently, in that scenario.
[–] meheleventyone 2 days ago
Even if you don’t like the concept of co-ops it’s fairly easy to ask yourself if you would you be more or less motivated if you shared more in the success of a company rather than it being sucked up by shareholders?
[–] red_candle_wax 3 days ago
According to AI boosters he should be able to make magnitude more now
[–] rtp4me 3 days ago
[–] singpolyma3 2 days ago
And you do it to provide the product/service, provide for your workers, etc
[–] hobo123 2 days ago
[–] paimapi 2 days ago
Would love to see just one example of a billion+ valuation company with nothing but C-suite and that against the ratio of companies with 1000+ employees who are worth a billion+. The only two sub-dozen workers that come to mind for me are Theranos and Bernie Madoff and I'm not sure they are examples of success.
[–] hobo123 2 days ago
[–] singpolyma3 2 days ago
[–] chasd00 3 days ago
[–] xg15 3 days ago
Reminds me of the old press pieces along "with the new machines, the workers won't have to do this tedious and dangerous work anymore and will have so much more free time!"
And free time they had...
[–] bluGill 3 days ago
[–] xg15 2 days ago
[–] autoexec 2 days ago
Another way of looking at that is you could own a home and a modern car, and support your entire family and have the latest technology all on a single income.
TV wasn't worth having in 1950 for most people, if they even got reception at all, but by 1955 75% of homes had state of the art TVs. Phones improved over the decade as well, and pretty much everyone had at least one in their home (technically owned by AT&T). What people had seems primitive to us, but it was all new and constantly improving to the people at the time.
Today our experience causes us to expect that greed and enshittification will make everything both worse and more expensive, but back then people were excited about the future and about how technology would make their lives better while getting cheaper because that was their experience.
[–] lelanthran 3 days ago
He produces much more shareholder value.
He works much more harder.
He is much more tired.
Exactly why does he think this is a good deal for him? Because he's VP of blah?
The whole AI-boosterism is from people convinced that if only they can maximise shareholder value, their lot in life would improve.
[–] steveBK123 3 days ago
Same idea with all these agents that are going to negotiate our insurance down, haggle with our cell phone providers, and find the best hotel deals.
Your counterparty will have its own agent, a larger budget for that agent, and a lot more skin in the game to ensure they retain their advantage (cell phone bills are 100% of the cell companies income but is only 0.5% of your spending). Good luck.
[–] Ekaros 3 days ago
[–] petesergeant 3 days ago
I did some work on negotiating agents. This doesn’t have to be a zero sum game. If you can craft a per-user package effectively (for many services) then both sides end up with a better deal, and competition in the market stops the provider entity from dictating terms.
[–] steveBK123 2 days ago
Apples iPhone call answering for unknown numbers was OK until all the overseas robocallers made their robot respond somewhat conversationally and hang on the line so that it vaguely looks like a real enough call. I can still tell its a robot since I am not senile yet, but I still have all the notifications about the call/transcription/voicemail/etc to tap.
People deploying agents to call restaurants for reservations works for like the first 10 calls that restaurant gets and now they are going to hang up on everyone's bots. Many websites already blocking agents. Some websites where agents were scraping for reservations/inventory are outright locking peoples accounts. Etc.
https://www.businessinsider.com/resy-suspends-vcs-account-ai...
https://www.cnbc.com/2026/10/13/jpmorgan-ai-agents-account-a...
https://finance.yahoo.com/technology/ai/articles/metas-muse-...
[–] Aurornis 3 days ago
[–] paimapi 3 days ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/13/business/dealbook/ai-prod...
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/newe.12400
https://www.technologyreview.com/2025/12/23/1130393/how-soci...
[–] Aurornis 3 days ago
I know you can find it if you Google it, but that’s my point: It’s the shibboleth that these people use to signal their alignment with an ideology, and it’s all the same thing.
I could have told you what those articles would have said before I began reading them because “AI booster” is a phrase associated with a very specific worldview. It gets dressed up prose about superiority and condescension for the “boosters” but it’s always the same thing.
It’s like many of the academic phrases that develop to signal alignment with an ideology and separate the insiders from the outsiders.
[–] paimapi 3 days ago
When most theorists talk about shibboleths and impenetrable academic writing, it's in reference to terms like 'deterritorialization' or 'intertextuality' which are not immediately evident to most lay people who aren't armed with an etymological background or who once stumbled into an advanced course on literary theory in pursuit of a creative writing degree
You could probably say that there's cultural capital associated with it but that's true of nearly any term describing an ideology or opinion. The very same AI boosters are guilty of coining things like 'orthogonality' or 'instrumentally convergent subgoals' which lean more towards being unnecessarily bombastic than descriptive (I guess 'intelligent but amoral' and 'self-preservation' aren't fancy enough for adoption) which loses the strongest argument for academic jargon like the one advanced by Butler: https://web.archive.org/web/20240630040227/https://www.nytim...
[–] user43928 3 days ago
By speaking of boosting, they add an implication that the opinion isn't as genuine as their own and is perhaps motivated by some sort of financial benefit.
Am I wrong?
[–] oblio 3 days ago
[–] user43928 3 days ago
X then took action and suspended creator's accounts that were posting about Kimi K3.1 without the paid sponsorship tag, allegedly hitting some accounts that weren't paid by Moonshot.
In any case, I do not think that people are typically being paid to promote AI generally, rather than specific products.
To imply so on comments from well established HN users, as if it was unlikely they simply find value in AI and have a genuinely positive opinion, often seems misguided.
[–] Aurornis 3 days ago
It’s all over this thread as a pejorative for anyone who doesn’t have a cynical view of AI.
[–] pseudalopex 2 days ago
[–] user43928 2 days ago
I'm an enthusiast when it comes to using AI to my benefit. I could care less about what others do, as long as it does not concern my work.
I think it would be strange if someone were to label me an 'AI booster', but maybe that's just how I feel.
[–] Aurornis 3 days ago
It’s a shibboleth because it’s a highly specific phrase used by these people.
The fact that it’s self-explanatory doesn’t take away from that.
It’s a shibboleth in the way it’s used. I see the word “booster” applied more to AI than any other topic because it’s the shibboleth chosen to represent that specific set of ideologies about AI.
[–] 10111001 3 days ago
It's not a shibboleth because "AI booster" is a fairly straightforward label to describe a group of people with certain characteristic. Which is proven because as I wrote "AI booster" above, mentally I was trying coin a descriptive label rather than use a predefined stock term. Personally, I have no fixed label for that group, and could have just as easily written "AI enthusiast" or "AI promoter."
IIRC, a shibboleth is a characteristic word or pronunciation that gives you away, often without you even realizing it. Understanding that there are people who support AI and others who oppose AI, and trying to refer to those groups, is not that.
[–] Aurornis 3 days ago
AI booster is a common predefined term, not something you coined on the fly.
If you look higher up in this thread, the other arguments are that it’s a common predefined term with wide usage and understanding. You were repeating a phrase that you saw before and associated with a set of ideas.
[–] cassepipe 3 days ago
It just makes sense that the bigger the agora in which a debate takes place, the more nuances will fade away until you can roughly sort people into the "X bad" and "X good" buckets. Is it desirable ? I don't know. Is it some group's lobbying/conspiracy ? I don't think so
[–] foobiekr 3 days ago
See also “cryptocurrency booster” for another example.
[–] Aurornis 3 days ago
“AI booster” appears 100X more often than I ever saw “cryptocurrency booster” and the phrase is always associated with people who have a specific ideology about AI.
Who wins in the market?
It's not a uniform answer. There are times and places where the first one wins, as well as a mixed strategy. But I think broadly speaking the majority answer is the second.